Team Scoring at Nationals

If the intent of the new rule was to prevent large teams from overpowering small teams in team scoring, the current rule has produced a ridiculous result. The rule was changed so that "Regional Teams" who can pull participants from their entire LMSC - a pool of thousands of swimmers in some cases - aren't competing against "Club Teams" who can only pull participants from only one team. What happens every Nationals is that the host club and the host LMSC's teams ALWAYS have a lot of people because it is easy to just show up and swim - and that gives them a huge advantage against other clubs, especially in relays. That is a fact of life, and really, the only way to beat the hosts is to bring as many people. I know that this setup doesn't always work out perfectly, but a lot of the way the teams break down depends on the location of Nationals - and any team's placement can vary from meet to meet. For a regional team from a smaller LMSC like MOVY, I understand your gripe - but let's face it, even with Large/Small scoring, there are still going to be plenty of dissatisfied folks.

My team had 15 swimmers and finished in the Top 10. I was really happy about that and actually never looked at the different team sizes. Think most all of the California teams were limited in size like we were, because of the travel distance. Even with the relative small size of our National Team, we all had a great time and seem to have grown closer with the experience. Relay day was definitely a part of that process. I love the energy at workouts now as the National Team tells their stories about the INDY trip! Seems many swimmers are already committing to traveling to Atlanta in the Spring and don't want to miss all the excitement :)

Just as FYI....Indy SwimFit is a "Club" Team...We have hosted 5 US Masters Swimming National Championships, this was the first year we won a championship.....

Just as FYI....Indy SwimFit is a "Club" Team...We have hosted 5 US Masters Swimming National Championships, this was the first year we won a championship..... Mel, please share with us all how many teams Indy SwimFit "controls" and how many other masters teams are in Indy that you compete with for members? A city of what size? No disrespect but bottom line is there are a number of teams who are classified as "clubs" who are in a gray area...IMHO.

For example if Illinois Masters brought 200+ swimmers out of their 1500 membership there would be no way ISF could win...They didn't and we did... I wish we could have brought more swimmers. Illinois Masters only had 72 and got second to Michigan with 20 less swimmers. A few years ago, Illinois Masters brought a huge team and beat INDYSwim Fit the meet host. Illinois Masters has approx 1500 members, approx 52 workout groups, approx 70 coaches. I fully support the separate recognition for CLUBS; they deserve it. At least their coach deserves it. More power to the coach if he/she is a good recruiter FYI-The Illinois LMSC (ILMSA) had Academy Bullets, Elgin Blue Waves and a couple unattached swimmers. Another FYI: even without relays INDYSwim Fit would have still won Nationals. Congratulations INDYSwim Fit.

I wish we could have brought more swimmers. Illinois Masters only had 72 and got second to Michigan with 20 less swimmers. A few years ago, Illinois Masters brought a huge team and beat INDYSwim Fit the meet host. Illinois Masters has approx 1500 members, approx 52 workout groups, approx 70 coaches. Nadine: Michigan Masters had 45 swimmers that scored in the meet from the start of the meet team roster. We had 52 swimmers sign up so we had 7 no shows. Illinois Masters had 68 swimmers that scored in the meet from the start of the meet team roster. You had 72 swimmers sign up with 4 no shows. This information was taken from the LMSC results summary. Of the 52 swimmers that signed up, only one swimmer was from outside the borders of the Michigan LMSC and he happened to be a brother of one of our swimmers. We had entered 42 relays and scored in 41 of them with one DQ. Michigan Masters scored more points on relay day, with the exception of Indy Swim Fit than any club or team that was entered in the meet. 40 swimmers out of 45 swam the maximum of 4 relays on relay day contributing to the relay scores.

First and foremost, I nor YMCA Indy SwimFit DO NOT "Control" teams/workout groups or clubs. YMCA Indy SwimFit is a YMCA sponsored program, with 2 Full Time Coaches and 8 Part Time Coaches, and all of the coaches are employees of the same YMCA. We use 3 YMCA facilities, 1 high school, and a university pool to accommodate the fitness swimmer, triathlete, and competitive masters swimmers who are members of our program. We offer 8 workouts a day Monday thru Friday and 2 on Saturday, with a coach on deck at all times. The workouts are provided by our Head Coach, and are the same at each location. It is not uncommon to have 30-40 swimmers in each of the two Saturday practices. We are a true "Club" by any one's definition, at this years LC Championship we had 17 swimmers who swam in their first Nationals and 23 swimmers who swam the relay day only. There are 5 other clubs in the Indianapolis area, three of them I have been working to develop Masters Programs for their membership within their facility. These clubs and their facilities see the value of having an adult aquatic fitness program for their members who have chosen aquatics as a means of exercise for a healthier lifestyle. Additionally, it has created an additional revenue stream for them during these tough economic times. Individual clubs create new membership and develop new leadership. In Indiana today we have 17+ Clubs, when we only used to have one and the US Masters Swimming membership growth in the LMSC is in direct correllation with number of new clubs. When it comes to club scoring everyone knows in a "Age Group" meet, the more swimmers you bring the more points you score. For example if Illinois Masters brought 200+ swimmers out of their 1500 membership there would be no way ISF could win...They didn't and we did... Mel that is probably the most words you have written in one sitting in years...got your attentuon eh? So let's talk some more...I think your organization is outstanding and a model for others to look at. However the debates that have raged here for YEARS about team scoring always go back to one distinction between combined teams and clubs...and that is a "true" club (others definition) is one that trains together at ONE facility. So how "fair" is it that you have multiple satellite pools "combining" to swim at a club against someone like Walnut Creek? By the way, who are the other masters teams that train in Indianapolis again? GReater INdiana (GRIN) State of Indiana GRIN is not only the name of the LMSC, but it is also one of the registered clubs. Swimmers who join the GRIN club can swim for their local workout group within the GRIN LMSC boundary, but outside the GRIN LMSC boundary swimmers swim for the GRIN Club. The GRIN LMSC officers provide guidance for those swimmers who join the GRIN registered club. Local workout groups may have their own fees to cover expenses. If a swimmer wonders if there is a workout group near them, contact Babs Larsen, the GRIN LMSC Registrar for a contact. Healthplex Indianapolis, IN Eileen Davis is the Healthplex Masters Swim Coach. To learn more about the program, contact Eileen at 560 West Poplar Street, Zionsville, IN 46077. She can also be reached by phone at 317-873-2367 or by email at edavis2@indy.rr.com.

Okay, so let me get this straight...We have a 4 lane 25 yard pool at the Y, and we are servicing 25 members, and there are others who would like to participate, but we can not accommodate them...The HS across the street builds a 10 lane 50 M indoor pool and invites us to have our program in their facility, this then becomes a satellite pool and we are no longer a "club"...This becomes unfair to Walnut Creek because we have multiple pools...You gotta be kidding...We unfortunately do not have one pool owned by the city parks department where we could have multiple practices each day... While I realize you work out in the same pool every day... The YMCA has other programs that do not allow multiple scheduled Masters practices...The GRIN website is out of date (very unfortunate)...Franklin, Carmel, Greenwood, and Noblesville all have programs, these are small communities in and around Indianapolis....What many don't seem to understand, individual clubs build membership and leadership...If you have only 3 people on your team and are competitive and need 4th for a relay you will find one...Its not all about winning its about competing with people you workout with on a daily basis... We do that, all members of our program can go to any location at any time based on their work and family committments...A case in point...We provided 10 team banners for each of the two divisions "Club" and "Regional"....Interesting fact, all of the Club banners were picked up, only 3 Regional banners were picked up...The Regional Clubs have no definitive leadership and no one really wants the team award, because there is no place to put the banner or plaque or whatever...

The rule was changed so that "Regional Teams" who can pull participants from their entire LMSC - a pool of thousands of swimmers in some cases - aren't competing against "Club Teams" who can only pull participants from only one team. What happens every Nationals is that the host club and the host LMSC's teams ALWAYS have a lot of people because it is easy to just show up and swim - and that gives them a huge advantage against other clubs, especially in relays. That is a fact of life, and really, the only way to beat the hosts is to bring as many people. I know that this setup doesn't always work out perfectly, but a lot of the way the teams break down depends on the location of Nationals - and any team's placement can vary from meet to meet. For a regional team from a smaller LMSC like MOVY, I understand your gripe - but let's face it, even with Large/Small scoring, there are still going to be plenty of dissatisfied folks. I agree ... and find it kind of amusing that people get so worked up over team scoring at Nationals. I think teams are great for camaraderie and certainly relays, but the team scores are bogus given the numerous factors (outside of swimming strength in the pool) that contribute in a far greater way to scores.

First and foremost, I nor YMCA Indy SwimFit DO NOT "Control" teams/workout groups or clubs. YMCA Indy SwimFit is a YMCA sponsored program, with 2 Full Time Coaches and 8 Part Time Coaches, and all of the coaches are employees of the same YMCA. We use 3 YMCA facilities, 1 high school, and a university pool to accommodate the fitness swimmer, triathlete, and competitive masters swimmers who are members of our program. We offer 8 workouts a day Monday thru Friday and 2 on Saturday, with a coach on deck at all times. The workouts are provided by our Head Coach, and are the same at each location. It is not uncommon to have 30-40 swimmers in each of the two Saturday practices. We are a true "Club" by any one's definition, at this years LC Championship we had 17 swimmers who swam in their first Nationals and 23 swimmers who swam the relay day only. There are 5 other clubs in the Indianapolis area, three of them I have been working to develop Masters Programs for their membership within their facility. These clubs and their facilities see the value of having an adult aquatic fitness program for their members who have chosen aquatics as a means of exercise for a healthier lifestyle. Additionally, it has created an additional revenue stream for them during these tough economic times. Individual clubs create new membership and develop new leadership. In Indiana today we have 17+ Clubs, when we only used to have one and the US Masters Swimming membership growth in the LMSC is in direct correllation with number of new clubs. When it comes to club scoring everyone knows in a "Age Group" meet, the more swimmers you bring the more points you score. For example if Illinois Masters brought 200+ swimmers out of their 1500 membership there would be no way ISF could win...They didn't and we did...