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Testosterone and fairness

Allen Stark

Everyone knows the commercials about “low T” and how men can retain their “vigor” but this also referring to basically a powerful PED. I am 76 and so far my testosterone is normal and I can’t be sure how I’d react if it wasn’t but a friend pointed out a world record holding swimmer who was faster in his 70s than 60s and faster at 75 than 70. My friend said this is very unlikely to be from better training. As I was close to WR times at 75 this is not an academic discussion for me . So what is fair .

Parents

  • Great topic - especially when age starts coming into the discussion. I competed against East Germany - every single East German athlete was using PEDs - all ... I won a Bronze medal - earned a Silver  - but East Germany fraud got them ahead. All of East Germany and in my mind Russia as well - fraud with PED -- but sadly this also added a LOT of use all over the world in many many sports including likely swimming. Testing was not good enough - for example the East Germans were never caught ... anyways --

    The main question for me - what if a PED - pretty sure testosterone does not but what of sth else actually improves your health and slows aging at age ... 65 or 70 or 80 ? That's a tough one - I follow Dr. Michael Greger - yes not popular WFPB and all - but he is VERY good also at supplement scams - but if he would recommend ( he doesn't) a PED type supplement or sth for my health in 10 years ... I don't know -- my swimming life was strangely dominated by PEDs - we had soooo many fast women on our team that were clearly defrauded out of soooo many good results - Shirley Babashof is one of my most admired swimmers ever - she called them out and she got spanked for it - horrible !!!

    For you - I think the best way to think of it is using yourself as the main competitor - records and titles are great but in the end - PRs -- training at the highest level and actually earning YOUR result - to me that is the core of swimming - the winners at the elite level of most events are NEVER because of more training / or trying harder - NEVER ... tif they are clean - the winners of 10 gold medals vs the guy who missed the final is ALWAYS caused by genetics and when quality training was started - always ... so in the end its for me its about PR - not PED but I totally see your concern ... sorry to ramble on 

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  • Great topic - especially when age starts coming into the discussion. I competed against East Germany - every single East German athlete was using PEDs - all ... I won a Bronze medal - earned a Silver  - but East Germany fraud got them ahead. All of East Germany and in my mind Russia as well - fraud with PED -- but sadly this also added a LOT of use all over the world in many many sports including likely swimming. Testing was not good enough - for example the East Germans were never caught ... anyways --

    The main question for me - what if a PED - pretty sure testosterone does not but what of sth else actually improves your health and slows aging at age ... 65 or 70 or 80 ? That's a tough one - I follow Dr. Michael Greger - yes not popular WFPB and all - but he is VERY good also at supplement scams - but if he would recommend ( he doesn't) a PED type supplement or sth for my health in 10 years ... I don't know -- my swimming life was strangely dominated by PEDs - we had soooo many fast women on our team that were clearly defrauded out of soooo many good results - Shirley Babashof is one of my most admired swimmers ever - she called them out and she got spanked for it - horrible !!!

    For you - I think the best way to think of it is using yourself as the main competitor - records and titles are great but in the end - PRs -- training at the highest level and actually earning YOUR result - to me that is the core of swimming - the winners at the elite level of most events are NEVER because of more training / or trying harder - NEVER ... tif they are clean - the winners of 10 gold medals vs the guy who missed the final is ALWAYS caused by genetics and when quality training was started - always ... so in the end its for me its about PR - not PED but I totally see your concern ... sorry to ramble on 

Children
  • in reply to Erik Hochstein
    Erik Hochstein said:
    I think the best way to think of it is using yourself as the main competitor - records and titles are great but in the end - PRs -- training at the highest level and actually earning YOUR result - to me that is the core of swimming

    Yes! In the end "winning" is about getting to the best performance you could. Very often, nobody else will even know. Some of the absolutely most satisfying swims I have had in my life were in practice, where I knew I absolutely killed it. If even one friend or teammate sees and acknowledges such a great performance, its wonderful to share, but usually, one has to just savor the moment personally. Anyone who has done a lot of competitive swimming and cares about it has walked away from a swim meet totally elated, but with no publicly visible markings of success: no podium finish, no hardware, didn't make finals, didn't get a second swim, didn't score points, no pr, but nevertheless ecstatic from a hard-earned personal success.