The Butterfly Lane

Sorry but U tube video didn't open like your first one did. I would imagine from your description that you "smoothed out the down kick" by kicking slower. In pulling hand speed determines your forward speed. In kicking free and fly the only forward motion is when the feet are bent from the water pressure on the top of the top than spring back like a fin at the end of the down kick. Try kicking harder to feel a bit more pressure on the top of the foot. The better swimmers also try to get some power from the up kick by feeling pressure on the bottom of their feet. Also when you kick faster the next kick will have harder water to press against yielding more force forward. Fish get this as their tails go back and forth. Regarding your shoulder on the pull of course injury avoidance is always #1 and everything else is a distant second. Just try as best you can and repeat this in your head as you pull: Fingers below the wrist-wrist below elbow. Only pressure on the palms pushing backwards gets you moving forwards. I couldn't figure out why the video wasn't coming through rather than just the link, but I got it figured out and corrected it. The video is now showing back in post #863. Sorry about that! What I had done was linked to where the video appeared in the editing area rather than the viewing area. Oops! :doh: My challenge is to kick harder and still try to keep the kick from coming out of the water. I hope to figure that out somehow. As for the pull, injury avoidance is ALWAYS my first concern! Thanks!

Hi there, Dan! :wave: Thanks for weighing in! You are the first person to ever point that out about my hips at that part of my stroke. In doing so, I felt like I lost even more power in my kick, so I have to figure that out. Next, I will work more on my arms! That's what I was trying to get at when I was talking about the kick. I just didn't say it as well. Here's the big thing I see - it looks like you bend pretty deliberately at the hips. That's what I was getting at about it looking like a deliberate motion, when it should not be. It appears to create a disjointed kick. So it almost looks like you are kicking with your upper legs, rather than your core. It should start as your chest goes down and, as Dan said, create a whip. Hard to compare perspectives, but if you look at the instructional video you post, at 35:30, there is an underwater video. It looks like his body makes a smooth sine wave. It appears to my very novice eyes that the bend at the hips was more pronounced in the second video.

That's what I was trying to get at when I was talking about the kick. I just didn't say it as well. Here's the big thing I see - it looks like you bend pretty deliberately at the hips. That's what I was getting at about it looking like a deliberate motion, when it should not be. It appears to create a disjointed kick. So it almost looks like you are kicking with your upper legs, rather than your core. It should start as your chest goes down and, as Dan said, create a whip. Hard to compare perspectives, but if you look at the instructional video you post, at 35:30, there is an underwater video. It looks like his body makes a smooth sine wave. It appears to my very novice eyes that the bend at the hips was more pronounced in the second video. I get what you are saying, and I also get what Dan and ganache are explaining as well. What my brain comprehends and what my body spits out are two different things! :dunno: It feels like I am doing the right thing; however, the video shows otherwise. Today, I concentrated on trying to loosen up my hips more and stretch forward. I don't have it on video; however, my husband watched and said he could see a difference. Overall, he thinks my stroke is looking better. I still have a long way to go, though, from what I see on this thread and what I see in my video. I'll be heading over to Europe for a bit and will have a chance to swim here and there, so I will keep working on it!

I get what you are saying, and I also get what Dan and ganache are explaining as well. What my brain comprehends and what my body spits out are two different things! :dunno: It feels like I am doing the right thing; however, the video shows otherwise. Oh, I know that! That's why I prefaced my first response with the whole thing about "feel." And I've just always gotten in the water and done the fly with very little thought. ***, oh heavens, no. I pace myself when swimming stroke workouts on the fly at about 31-32 seconds per 50 yard rep.......*** is about 42. Ugh. I cannot figure out how to make the *** work to save my life. I don't know how you people can swim the *** stroke. I just don't. Here's a very odd thing I've noticed when doing UDK sets. I have to forcibly relax (oxymoron!?) my body to have good ones. I can even feel my face muscles relax when I do well. So here's a thought/suggestion. Rather than try to kick, try to relax your lower body as much as you possibly can, and work on your upper body's entry. I know, it seems counter-intuitive, but perhaps if you can relax your body more, you'll get that whip-like action that really helps propel you forward as Dan referenced?

Oh, I know that! That's why I prefaced my first response with the whole thing about "feel." And I've just always gotten in the water and done the fly with very little thought. ***, oh heavens, no. I pace myself when swimming stroke workouts on the fly at about 31-32 seconds per 50 yard rep.......*** is about 42. Ugh. I cannot figure out how to make the *** work to save my life. I don't know how you people can swim the *** stroke. I just don't. Here's a very odd thing I've noticed when doing UDK sets. I have to forcibly relax (oxymoron!?) my body to have good ones. I can even feel my face muscles relax when I do well. So here's a thought/suggestion. Rather than try to kick, try to relax your lower body as much as you possibly can, and work on your upper body's entry. I know, it seems counter-intuitive, but perhaps if you can relax your body more, you'll get that whip-like action that really helps propel you forward as Dan referenced? First of all, what you do is have someone shoot some video of you, and then you switch over to "The Breaststroke Lane" to post your video. Then, I'll bet you a frog that King Frog is the first to respond with his critique and advice. :banana::D I know what you mean by "forcibly relax." It's the brain consciously sending a message to your body-- something I have to do constantly when I swim butterfly, especially when I race. My mantra on every stroke recovery is "Relax!" Unfortunately, when I do that, I feel better physically; however, my stroke reverts back to the old style kick ("Kerplunk!"). I'll get it one of these days... (In comparison, I tried that bottle-on-the-forehead drill for backstroke, and immediately got it, doing a build 100 complete with very slow, careful bucket turns!). In addition to breaststroke, backstroke comes more naturally to me.)

(In comparison, I tried that bottle-on-the-forehead drill for backstroke, and immediately got it, doing a build 100 complete with very slow, careful bucket turns!). In addition to breaststroke, backstroke comes more naturally to me.) Do you ever do one arm drills for fly? If not, try. Definitely puts the whole body into play, and gets teh kick initiated more in the core (at least for me).

Do you ever do one arm drills for fly? If not, try. Definitely puts the whole body into play, and gets teh kick initiated more in the core (at least for me). I do one arm fly as part of my warm-up, six days per week! :agree:

Great. Than do this a bit: Left arm-kick Right arm-kick Full stroke-big fast kick.

Great. Than do this a bit: Left arm-kick Right arm-kick Full stroke-big fast kick. Ok, I like that! I'll give it a try. Thanks! :)

May take a look at this sequence of videos on the drills mentioned. On edit - dang it, this shows the 1 arm only, and is embedded. If you copy and paste, it'll go through the one arm, then take you to the 1-2-1 that Dan suggested. www.youtube.com/watch Thanks, 67! I found it, and I'll give it a try tomorrow. For those of you curious to see the 1-2-1 drill, here it is: www.youtube.com/watch