Made a big change, would appreciate feedback

Keep on working on it.

Do you go to the gym to add leg muscle? mobdro

dsg10715, Thanks for the clarification. Now knowing your goal and a little of your background, I suggest you consider the following: a) Stop spending alot of time kicking since your goal is swimming faster. The primary sources of swimming speed is upper body and reducing drag. And, too often people who kick alot don't kick when they swim - kind of a waste. b) Get rid of the pull buoy (PB). They alter body position, do not make a big difference in building upper body strength, and make it easy to let lower back/glutes/hamstrings relax and do nothing. And, if your goal is to swim faster, you want to get used to using your legs and get those muscles used to maintaining a streamline position. c) Get rid of the snorkel - most of the time. I believe the snorkel is also a crutch that makes it easy to forget how to breathe properly. d) Get rid of the fins when swimming because they are also a crutch. They make you think you are better than you are. We have a guy at our pool who swims for 2 hours every day (fins, snorkel, and pull buoy). One day he decided he would try to swim without any of the stuff. He thought, since he swam so much, he could. He could not swim 5 strokes without stopping because he had no idea how to breathe, how to keep his toes pointed, and how to maintain a horizontal body position. He gave up after 10 minutes. That is why I don't like toys that make it easy to feel good when it does no good. Good luck and look forward to the video. :) Paul

OP can’t get his speed up until he works on fixing his stroke, which as he referenced in the first post, is hampered by weak kicking. People that swim all day using just fins and a snorkel or just a buoy or just kicking with a board will obviously not get better, but all of your aforementioned toys could be utilized by the OP in the right places to help with his stroke: Kicking work will strengthen his legs and help eliminate some of his “side to side” motion. Snorkel also would be great for working on head position and body position. I’m a big believer in toys. That’s not to say I think everyone has to use them to get better. But I would say the OP needs to try things and see for himself. Personally I disagree with the previous poster’s opinion, but if it works for him, that’s great. Again, for me, fins, snorkel, and buoy are integral parts of my training, and I do two practices a week that are focused specifically on kicking. I realize that isn’t for everyone and I may be an exception, but given the OP’s stroke issues, I would recommend the use of some toys in certain situations.

Calvin S, I should probably start a new post about the "benefits" of toys, but will leave it for now. I have coached masters for almost 40 years, high school/club for 15, and college for 8. I did not say that toys are not worthwhile - if used properly and the way they are intended. BUT, the vast majority of masters use toys so they do NOT have to work on their weaknesses. When the going gets tough, most masters swimmers will add a PB because their legs are tired or they put on fins because they can keep up without kicking as hard or they use a snorkel because it means they can breathe whenever they want. Toys can be crutches that make you feel better about your swimming than is reality. This is my point to the OP (dsg10715). DSG10712 has a goal of swimming 1:20 per 100 pace. Spending alot of time kicking with fins will NOT help him achieve that goal. Swimming with a snorkel and pull buoy will NOT help him achieve that goal. The only thing that will help him achieve that goal is swimming (that includes some level of kicking) and figuring out a breathing pattern. I would even argue that spending 2x per week on kicking is less effective than spending the same amount of time swimming with a very hard kick and a little more time to recover. I am simply a very strong advocate of training the way you want to race. I prefer to tell swimmers to do 50s with a strong kick than having them do kick sets followed by swim sets and they drag their legs. OP asked for suggestions and I stand by my recommendations based on personal experience as well as coaching experience. The challenge for OP is it sounds like he is self-coaching which makes improvement much more challenging. Merry X-Mas to all masters swimmers!!

dsg10715, Am I reading your post correctly? Are you saying you will not be happy till you do 1:20/100 kicking or swimming? And, is this goal with or without fins? I will not be happy till i do 1:20 per 100 confidently and consistently. Long long way to go. Excited to tape myself and take the bark off where I am going wrong. Kicking 1:20 per 100 (without fins) is very fast - for anyone. It requires a fast kick tempo, very good ankle flexibility, and some endurance. Will await your reply before venturing further. windrath

Thanks. Not yet. Focusing on kicking 500-600 meters a day with board or snorkel and./or flippers and working on trying to kick harder when swimming, will tape it and see where I start from once everyone critiques. Do you go to the gym to add leg muscle? mobdro

dsg10715, Am I reading your post correctly? Are you saying you will not be happy till you do 1:20/100 kicking or swimming? And, is this goal with or without fins? Kicking 1:20 per 100 (without fins) is very fast - for anyone. Even swimming a set of 1:20’s is a challenge for me at least Just from my exp, improving kick at any distance starts with body position/streamline, UW’s, 15m times, 25m times, then finally 50m times. Go easy on the dolphin kick if it aggravates your back

Sadly I know I am mortal. 1:20 per 100 is my goal for freestyle, not kicking. I am buying a GoPro and will get myself filmed, edit it properly and then post here. dsg10715, Am I reading your post correctly? Are you saying you will not be happy till you do 1:20/100 kicking or swimming? And, is this goal with or without fins? Kicking 1:20 per 100 (without fins) is very fast - for anyone. It requires a fast kick tempo, very good ankle flexibility, and some endurance. Will await your reply before venturing further. windrath

Merry Christmas guys. I definitely try not to use toys except to help. I swam with a buoy for two years because of back surgery and sciatica that reared its ugly head. Once that all settled I started trying to swim better. I havent used the buoy in a year, FYI, but the preciptious drop in times and realiziing im snaking around led me to believe my inferior kicking/strength is first order of business. The self coaching is probably another major issue. I started swimming five years ago after I hurt my knee jogging and except splashing around and the obligatory lessons as a child (Im 42), havent swam as a swimmer ever. I basically jumped in the pool and couldnt swim 4 laps. Worked at it to where I did 3000k a day, tried to watch better swimmers (lots!) than me and emulate what they did. I acknowledge youtube videos, and my committment to offset my inferior genes, and skill, by doing lots of research and winning my goals on eventual proficency of technique would be helped by a coach. Now I am at a stage where swimming 3000 with no plan is not a good workout, I have realized. I was in Chicago for a week a few months ago, joined Masters because I knew I now needed to learn and I participated in workouts at UIC and saw what a workout that had a plan meant. That was a big lesson for me. Regarding toys, i use the kickboard or snorkel to kick as hard as I can for 500-600 after I do my 3000 everyday. During my 3000 i am focusing on trying to biltaeral breathe, work on rotating from hips and not from shoulders. Working on where my hands enters so even though i think its shoulder length its maybe not...basically trying to figure out the snaking problem that emerged once I started kicking and thus started really dragging my body. Fins. Sometimes I do 1000 meters, 100 with fins, 100 without, with no rest; to try and get a feel for a more powerful kick propelling me and then trying to emulate without fins power right afterwards. I dont use the fins with the kickboard that much. I prefer to streamline with snorkel and kick. Then my shoulders dont strain on the kickboard and I can work on slipping and sliding as much as I can. I find kicking with the fins very hard, and also you have to do a lot less to achieve power so Im conscious of trying to use them to understand how I generate power, than to trick myself into thinking the 1:30 with fins was me improving. Ive also used fins to work on that Bow and Arrow drill a previous poster - Steve - suggested which I find devilishly hard, especially when I drop more to one side than the other so I need my fins to keep afloat and moving. I do the drill 100-200 a workout since it was suggested. I used paddles during the year 500 or so a workout but have out them aside because compartively my legs are a bigger problem, and I dont think they helped as much focus on my elbow high and making the brick of the forearm and hand as I would tradeoff for having a toy. The biggest themes Im trying to grapple with now is understanding on a physical level how one creates power and maintains it, and secondly, strengthening what I see as a very weak fitness in generating said power and then knowing what to do with it.