Might be useful when swimming the gauntlet on the HudsonUnless it’s different up-river, based on my experiences with Hudson river swims once on a MIMS relay, once as a MIMS solo and once as a MIMS observer; I have never seen a need for an escort or safety boat to go that fast. There were a lot of pleasure boats and jet skis zipping up and down the river while we swam.
If you want to see a high speed chase, go see the new Die Hard or rent the original Gone in 60 seconds. If you want a safe escorted swim keep your escort boat close and slow.
I believe this is one of the reasons fast Safety boats are needed. One of the duties of a Saftey boat (not an Escort boat) is to block pleasure boats and make them aware that there are swimmers in the water. Another duty is to quickly extract an injured person to the closest extraction point on land.I guess we have a different view of the role of the escort watercraft. Beyond the steering, care and feeding of the swimmer, the escort boat is there to increase the visibility of the swimmer AND to warn off approaching watercraft. As a swimmer in the water I much prefer my escort boat captain getting on the loud speaker or horn to warn off approaching jet skis (which happened a few times in the MIMS) rather than a “safety” boat racing up and down the course trying to do a similar thing. If you have an extremely active waterway and need safety boats to block pleasure boats then you should have enough safety boats to do so without needing to race off at top speed on an interceptor run.
As for fast extractions, so far I’ve been fortunate that all of the rescues in my swims have been non-life threatening. From my perspective the real critical element of a successful rescue are the first responders and not the second responders or evacuation team. I’d rather pay a dozen trained waterfront certified lifeguards positioned in kayaks and on paddle boards than have twice that many first/second responder volunteers in power boats for one of my races.
And yes we plan for emergency evacuation and review the plan with on-water personnel prior to every event. Going forward, I need to make sure my second responder’s watercraft are compliant for all USMS sanctioned events. Is it more work for us event directors, yes.Is USMS doing this because it is a requirement of our insurance underwriter; yes. Is USMs doing this because it does not like open water swimmers; NO!
Interesting that Rob Copeland keeps bringing up the example of MIMS, because the people who actually run MIMS think prop guards are an insanely stupid idea, for exactly the reasons chaos states.
Perhaps it's different in little loop course lake swims in Georgia.
Interesting that Rob Copeland keeps bringing up the example of MIMS, because the people who actually run MIMS think prop guards are an insanely stupid idea, for exactly the reasons chaos states.
Perhaps it's different in little loop course lake swims in Georgia.Evan,
I guess I missed the post where Morty said “prop guards are an insanely stupid idea”.
And I’m sorry if I keep bringing up the MIMS in 2 posts, darn now it’s 3. Would you prefer I talk about other open water swims?
And yes, a loop courses in Georgia is different than say…MIMS (4) or the English Channel. But, you might find that pretty much every open water swim has its own special nuance.
Rob Copeland, two questions:
1. Do you know whether USMS corporate hired outside safety experts to advise USMS or to try to assuage insurer's concerns?
2. Do you know what USMS corporate is doing going forward to try to bring OW swims back into feasible status for 2014?
Thanks.
This illustrates the crux of the issue, that USMS is implying that its sanctioned events will be safer than non-sanctioned events due to some new requirements. I disagree, and swimmers will see fewer sanctioned events this season for 2 reasons.
1. The new USMS requirements simply cannot be applied to certain venues.
2. The increased fees cannot be supported by many events.And this is the crux of the misunderstanding that a lot of folks have. Proof of insurance and propeller guards in and of themselves will NOT guarantee safer events and USMS has NOT intentionally stated or implied this. These new requirements are intended to mitigate certain risks to the swimmers and to USMS.
1. The new USMS requirements simply cannot be economically applied to certain venues. Agreed!
2. The increased fees cannot be supported by many events. This is the other big misconception. The increased insurance surcharge from USMS is charged to the LMSC. We are finding that most LSMCs are partially or fully absorbing the insurance surcharge. . In addition, the USMS Board has approved the concept of a fund for grants for sanctioned Open Water events to financially assist LMSC's in offsetting some or the entire surcharge.
Rob Copeland, two questions:I suggest you pose these questions to the other Rob; Rob Butcher. I do not have sufficient first hand information to provide the answers.
Sorry.
I guess I missed the post where Morty said “prop guards are an insanely stupid idea”.
Gosh, I would assume you already know what Morty thinks, because I assume you and the "Open Water Task Force" solicited his extensive input on the new guidelines, given he probably has more relevant experience than all of you combined. Right, Rob?
And I’m sorry if I keep bringing up the MIMS in 2 posts, darn now it’s 3. Would you prefer I talk about other open water swims?
You can bring up whatever swims you like, but it was amusing that the example you chose to use totally contradicts your viewpoint.
In my 30+ years of being an open water swimmer and race director, I’ve never seen an instance where a one of my safety or escort boats needed to be traveling anywhere near 34 MPH. In my opinion, anyone going that fast on an active race course is reckless and dangerous. That’s input from a race director.
Might be useful when swimming the gauntlet on the Hudson
There were a lot of pleasure boats and jet skis zipping up and down the river while we swam.
I believe this is one of the reasons fast Safety boats are needed. One of the duties of a Saftey boat (not an Escort boat) is to block pleasure boats and make them aware that there are swimmers in the water. Another duty is to quickly extract an injured person to the closest extraction point on land.
If you want to see a high speed chase, go see the new Die Hard or rent the original Gone in 60 seconds. If you want a safe escorted swim keep your escort boat close and slow.
I believe the 8 Bridges uses kayaks as escorts. Dave, please correct me if I am wrong.
I had hoped to someday participate in one of your swims. But if your only two options for safety watercraft are some guy in a Boston Whaler who refuses to show he is insured or a teenager going 50 on a jet ski; then I’ll take a pass. And stick with my swims in secluded puddles with trained water-front lifeguards in kayaks and Fire & Rescue on jet skis with rescue boards.
In my 30+ years of being an open water swimmer and race director, I’ve never seen an instance where a one of my safety or escort boats needed to be traveling anywhere near 34 MPH. In my opinion, anyone going that fast on an active race course is reckless and dangerous. That’s input from a race director.
Hypothetical.... but of course you knew that; and still it doesn't make it less true. You misrepresent the issue of insurance by failing to mention the $ 1,000,000 limit for hired boaters which BTW I have invited you to provide a link to any such agency that offers such a policy to non-commercial vessels, so if it does actually exist please post it here that we all may benefit.
There are only 2 reasons for high speeds during an event.
Emergency evacuation, and to protect swimmers from recreational traffic. I'm glad you have never had the need for either in your 30+ years of OW participation, but I'm sure you know such possibilities exist. We're ready and able to deal with them.
