Per USMS rules “Open water events restricted to USMS members, one-event registrants and Masters swimming members of a FINA member federation.” We do allow events to be dual sanctioned with USA Swimming. So the event either needed to apply for both USA Swimming and USMS sanctions or not run the youth division when the Masters were swimming.I assume this inability to include all ages under the USMS OW sanction is due to insurance? As a father of swimmers, I love, love, love events where my kids and I can swim (e.g., La Jolla Rough Water Swim and, at times in the past, various OW events in Arizona). I think the all ages atmosphere is great for the event experience for everyone, but also great for future recruiting for USMS. Though I don't have specifics, I have heard rumors that it is even harder to get USAS sanctioning for an OW event.
Is there a separate insurance reason and cost why USMS OW sanctioning can not also include under 18 year olds?
Or, is this more of a 'strategic' reason that, since USMS starts with 18 year olds, we want to have all of our events focused on our 'target market?'
I'd just like to understand what the barriers are to an easy-to-implement all ages OW race.
I assume this inability to include all ages under the USMS OW sanction is due to insurance? It is more a function of our mission and jurisdiction over the sport rather than insurance.
USMS’s mission is “To promote health, wellness, fitness and competition for adults through swimming.” Allowing members under the age of 18 does not fit our mission and it encroaches on USA Swimming.
Requirements for participating in sanctioned events have to do with membership and not age. Albeit, people can’t be members until age 18, so age is an issue. If we changed our mission and removed the age restrictions then participation of minors would not be a problem for us. It might be a problem with our fellow NGB, USA Swimming.
I have heard rumors that it is even harder to get USAS sanctioning for an OW event. I’m not sure I’d say it’s harder to get a USA Swimming open water sanction and run a dual sanctioned event. USA Swimming has different rules and regulations and the event host must comply with the requirements of both organizations. But, I was involved in getting a race dual sanctioned last year and I found both organizations very willing to help make the race happen. The safety plan and race officials required for USA Swimming events are different (harder?) than USMS, but you also have a larger pool of volunteers to pull from. And as a race director, a more comprehensive safety plan and more volunteers are always appreciated.
I love, love, love events where my kids and I can swim I agree, swimming with your kids is great. However after a 25K race a few years back, I don’t think my son agrees with me.
I’m not sure I’d say it’s harder to get a USA Swimming open water sanction and run a dual sanctioned event. USA Swimming has different rules and regulations and the event host must comply with the requirements of both organizations. But, I was involved in getting a race dual sanctioned last year and I found both organizations very willing to help make the race happen. The safety plan and race officials required for USA Swimming events are different (harder?) than USMS, but you also have a larger pool of volunteers to pull from. And as a race director, a more comprehensive safety plan and more volunteers are always appreciated.
In Northern California we have in past years had a number of dual-sanctioned events. Probably the more you have, the easier the coordination is between the local USMS and USA-S organizations. At any rate, I really enjoy events that include both kids and adults and appreciate whatever extra work the race organizers have to do to make them happen.
Kurt, there will always be many ways to express your OW love even though USMS has forsaken us.
For most of us, the show must go on, and it will. It is a shame that some events will fall off the calendar.Chaos, you may not have been strong enough. I just heard through a reliable source that the Kingdom Swim had to forsake there USMS Championship designation for the 10-Mile event. I also understand the race will go on without USMS. But for all practical purposes, for any swim that would require motorized boats for safety purposes, this year anyway, USMS is effectively out of the open water swimming business :-(
Are the race organizers having some problem arranging for boats that have the propeller guards and insurance that USMS's carrier now requires?
Yes! The Boston Light Swim had to drop USMS sanctioning/insurance for these reasons.
Also, I know of other groups that are losing a USMS national OW championship swim for these reasons (regardless of having the insurance fee waived and after signing an agreement to host the chamionship swim before these changes in the rules were made).
I just heard through a reliable source that the Kingdom Swim had to forsake there USMS Championship designation for the 10-Mile event. I also understand the race will go on without USMS. (
If this turns out to be true I will wish I had not renewed my membership in USMS this year. Kingdom Swim is the only event where I have ever presented my membership number. Next year I will gladly send my $35? to IROC. I am sure they would put it to good use.
I do appreciate the flog, magazine and the forum, but, I am feeling turned off on USMS. I am solely an open water swimmer. I don't swim with a team and have never been to a pool meet. I wonder how unique I am among the membership?
Is there a separate insurance reason and cost why USMS OW sanctioning can not also include under 18 year olds?
Or, is this more of a 'strategic' reason that, since USMS starts with 18 year olds, we want to have all of our events focused on our 'target market?'
I'd just like to understand what the barriers are to an easy-to-implement all ages OW race.
Hosting events with ages under 18 is contrary to the nature of Masters swimming. For the same reason you do not see swimmers under 18 at Masters pool workouts or pool swim meets.
I do appreciate the flog, magazine and the forum, but, I am feeling turned off on USMS. I am solely an open water swimmer. I don't swim with a team and have never been to a pool meet. I wonder how unique I am among the membership?
Not that unique: Among my personal swimming acquaintances, more do not swim with a team and have never participated in a pool meet than do. They join for one or two OW swims, have never read the forums (so wouldn't respond to a poll), don't have a flog....
This stuff about age limits is a smokescreen. It's about the prop guards.
+ Several thousand.
It would be useful if USMS admin took the lead in talking to swimmers about what is going on instead of hiding the info in a link. And I don't believe for a nanosecond that the requirements will be different when reevaluated for 2014 swimming year.
I don't disagree with what Ken or anyone else has said about the difficulty this year's rules pose for long, point-to-point swims, or about what a sad outcome it would be for the long term for USMS not to be able to sanction and support that aspect of OW swimming. I just think we ought to recognize that the USMS Board and LMSCs had a serious problem to solve when USMS's insurance carrier jacked up the premium all of a sudden. They weren't able to solve the problem perfectly, but they managed to find what seems to be a workable solution for the majority of 2013 season OW swims, including for the 10K National Championship race that prompted this thread.
If we understand accurately what aspects of the problem remain unsolved, and if we pay attention to how this year's solution does and does not work as the USMS Board anticipated or hoped it would, maybe we can do better for 2014 and beyond. But just saying, "races are cancelled! insurance catastrophe!" doesn't help a whole lot. The vast majority of participants in USMS OW events swim in events that can satisfy the new requirements, although entry fees may rise slightly. I'd hate for those folks to read this thread, or the one at marathonswimmers.org, and think that the 1- to 3-mile lake swims they enjoy so much are not going to go on at all.
I am looking forward to swimming in Lake Mead and hope I will meet some of you there!
