Lake Travis Relay Top Five - 10/12/12

SwimStrong C.Kemp, L.Armstrong, D.Rogers, R.Esselstyn, T.Robertson, J.Smitheal 3:51:04 Do you guys test for drugs?

no - I thought someone would catch his name eventually. Unfortunately, he will be a polarizing figure for some time. I am still a fan. Nevertheless Austin is a great locale for destination swims, and USMS members can work out temporary access to the Lee and Joe Jamail Swimming Center (University of Texas) with Longhorn Aquatics.

Sorry. That was just mean of me. Sounds like a great event.

That REALLY was mean of me. I'm more interested in hearing about a lake swim than I am about hearing (again) about about DopeStrong. I agree. There is already a thread just for Mr. A. and no one has yet said it, and i'll say it again - a mixed relay beat a bunch of guys who, as Bobby said even today, they are still calling him, still mad about it, and geez, how many ways can you slice and dice it that they got beat a relay with 2 very, very fast girls!!! Plus, Bobby made me laugh when I said why they were getting so competitive about it, to which he said, for the same reason you were upset you had a bad start at the A haunted hat meet, and I said, no, that's not true, it was the A lil' splashers meet, but it was funny so I guess it's fun to be so competitive even if it's not a tour de france. The Lake Travis relay is a lot of fun. I did it once, and anyone who knows me that is far far beyond my 25 second internal clock. There is strategy based on lake level and your team. I found it very fun. and regarding my previous post, i'd think it was interesting if anyone from the A-D list of famous/infamous people came to a local meet.

Now, be honest. Would YOU think about, consider doing a meet here if you knew Lance was coming!!!! Lance must first come forward tell the truth, apologize to the people he vilified in public, apologize to the people he intimidated through threats and lawsuits, apologize to the people whose lives he ruined, return the money he stole by filing baseless and fraudulent lawsuits. He also must make amends by taking all the money he took from sponsors through fraud, and all of the money he received as a result of his scheme to become wealthy by merging the Lance Armstrong brand with the Livestrong brand and donate it all to Livestrong. A scheme that netted him over $150,000,000.00. And no I'm not a Lance hater. In fact I freely admit that I have always been a fan of the Myth of Lance. But I have read the USADA Reasoned Decision and about 30% of the supporting documents, including all of the affidavits. I've watched his video deposition and watched him lie so he could receive $7.5 million. I involuntarily replay over and over in my head the TV adds that netted him millions where he looks directly into the camera and tells all of us as his adoring fans that he is clean and his detractors are liars. I watched him responded to questions about his use of drugs by attacking the person who made the statement. Heck he attacked the French people as a whole saying they were just jealous because they have't won the Tour in years. What would I do if I saw Lance in person and he continues to deny the facts? I'd call him a lier, a cheat and a fraud. Not only would I not go to see him, I would cancel any plans I had to enter the race. I'm not worried about USMS meets. I suspect that his lifetime ban is on it's way. The measure of a man is not how he acts when he knows everyone is looking, it is how he acts when he thinks no one can see him. It's not whether he get's caught so much as how he acts when he does. It's not how he treats people when they believe everything he wants them to believe, it's how he treats them when they confront him with the truth that he's not. It's not by the things he has done right and the people he helped, but how he takes responsibility for the things he has done wrong and the people he's hurt. Lance has a long way to go in making things right. If he doesn't get started quickly he could be facing the possibility of a complete forfeiture of everything he owns, and a bit of jail time. This is not just the story about some athlete who took performance enhancing drugs to win a few dumb bike races in Europe. It is about his character, it's about an illegal criminal conspiracy, it's about witness intimidation, it's about a financial fraud that earned him well over $150 million dollars. Let me ask you something: how would you feel if you told the appropriate authorities that you saw a person using performance enhancing drugs and then that person comes after you? What if it turns out that the person has unlimited resources to attack you including a net worth of $125 million and as much publicity that he wants. In fact he uses both his money and his position in the community to defile you, file a lawsuit against you and publicly humiliate and defame you and your spouse? Would you go to watch him swim in a race? Lance still has time to choose the path of redemption, but the time to make that choice is running out. If he doesn't others will choose the path to ruination for him. I hope for the sake of his family, his kids and Livestrong that he chooses that path quickly.

bob - you make this whole affair sound so personal. Please don't get me wrong. I am angry, but I am also not all amused by USADA and their tactics to nail armstrong... to nail bonds... to nail clemens. Our law enforcement agencies should not behave like mobsters to nail mafioso. They should be above this behavior. I love Sean Connery's line in the Untouchables, but that is the sort of g-men that would scare the crap out of me. Should we think of USADA findings simply as Lance was the best cheater among a population of cheaters? What does this mean for the sport of cycling and the Tour de France? Is the indignation demonstrated by piers morgan, michael wilbon and others an act? don't all of us love a good scandal? don't all of us love to see the success story crater into james frey's a million little pieces? Should any of us care?

That REALLY was mean of me. I'm more interested in hearing about a lake swim than I am about hearing (again) about about DopeStrong.

mick - you'll have to make a trip to austin for a swim. I do have a pittsburgh area swim on my wish list including a trip to PNC Park. before you state do not waste your time on the pirates, do realize my astros have set the standard for failing miserably the last two seasons.

I love Sean Connery's line in the Untouchables, but that is the sort of g-men that would scare the crap out of me. One of the surviving Untouchables was infuriated by the movie. Ness was strict about upkeeping the law and this man resented his unit being portrayed as playing fast and loose with the law. (I was shocked that there was still someone alive when the movie was made.)

bob - you make this whole affair sound so personal. I think that is a fair, and actually excellent question. Let me see if I can give you a short answer (or at least short by lawyer's standards). I have been a long time fan of the Myth of Lance. I have been following the Tour since the LeMond days. During all of those years there were questions raised what drugs people were using. Only large does of caffeine? More than that? Etc. I had no doubt that some were even used by Eddy Merx. When Lance won his first tour I was convinced he was doing something, most likely EPO which I believe was part of his cancer treatment. Was I outraged? No. When other cyclist or the European public attacked him as a doper my thoughts were that they were all doing it. The difference with Lance is he applied the same discipline to his doping program that he did to his training, and that Dr Ferrari was the best in the world at drawing up doping programs that beat the system. Did this make me angry? No. They all doped so it was a level playing field for the most part. What I didn't realize was that due to individual physiological differences, doping helps certain athletes more than others, but let's put that aside. What did bothered me was the way he attacked people who came forward and told the truth about what he (and they) were doing. It just didn't seem right, but I let it go because in my ignorance I didn't think it changed much. They were all in it together. When he attacked Greg Lemond I though it was wrong, mean spirited and went too far. But Greg was a public figure and could take care of himself. I knew he had to fight to get money from an insurance company who was trying to wiggle out of paying him because the claims (which were "unproven") that he was doping. So I let that go. I also heard about his lawsuit against some british paper for printing claims he doped, and that they had to pay a settlement (which was confidential). I didn't know how it was resolved so I ignored that. And then this summer a lot of information came out I began to realize his days were numbered. I also learned more about the way he attacked people directly, through others, in the press and in the courts. That was the point when I began to see the real Lance, and not the one he wanted me to see. Everything that came out made him look worse and he and his lawyers kept getting nastier and his attacks on people escalated. I knew this was wrong and I kept waiting for him to stop. He didn't and he continues even today. The only thing he has conceded is that is a "controversy". This really bothers me. I read the opinion of the Federal Court case that he filed and lost this summer. It was obvious that it was an attack purely on procedural grounds and that he and his attorneys intentionally mislead the court (and the public). He continued his ridiculous attack on USADA and its process (even threatening them that they would file a lawsuit if the USADA report concluded he doped) and going so far as to pull political strings in Washington. Yep that bothered me as well. And then the USADA opinion came out. Because I am retired I had the time to read it and a lot of the accompanying exhibits. It established that beyond a reasonable doubt that he doped. Did I care, not really. It was not news to me. What did bother me was that it proved the existence of a criminal conspiracy (along with Johann B. and Dr Ferrari) created to defraud people and organizations of millions of dollars. And what was worse it established that Lance was a mean, vengeful, narcissistic ego mania who set out to destroy everyone who tried to get in the way. This really was the last straw. I watched the video of him testifying under oath along with the parts of the videos made public of Betsy A. (who I always had my doubts about courtesy of Lance's PR machine) and his soigneur. Suddenly it all came together and I realized what was going on. This was not about a cyclist who doped to win a big race in Europe. It was so much more sinister. I could go on and explain all of the unseemly, wrong and illegal things that were involved, but I think you catch my drift. There is so much more. In fact while I am convinced that Lance had cancer (and doped in the years before he came down with it) and that he unselfishly set up a foundation to help others, he quickly became aware that the Lance Armstrong brand was worth so much more money if it was seen by the public as part and parcel of the Livestrong brand. Lance is a lot smarter than people give credit for, and I think his decision to tie them together so closely is what he also hoped would save him if he ever got caught. So far it seems like it is working. I think he has not come out and confessed because he still believes it will be his salvation. Only time will tell. My feeling is that if Lance comes forward tells the truth, apologizes to everyone (in particular the people he personally attacked) and wrote a check to Livestrong for $100 million (his net worth isestimated to be $125 million and it is a fair guess-timate of how much he earned off the Livestrong name) we should put every thing aside. He could/should remain on the board of Livestrong. No jail time, It serves no purpose. As with Marion Jones the humiliation would be enough (jail time made no sense for her either). Of course he faces other legal claims but with the money he has left along with the over $10 million he'll make from his book, he'll do fine. I think if he does all of this he can use the rest of his life being the person he always wanted us to believe he was. Frankly, if he doesn't he faces a worst case scenario of losing everything and ending up in jail like Bernie Madoff. Despite all of that, I didn't take any of it personally. However, I do take something personally, and that is he thinks I and others are so stupid we don't understand what really went on.