In a draft legal OWS race, is it good or bad etiquette to draft off another person for all/majority/much of a race and then swing around and try to take the win?
Its annoying to have someone draft off you, then pass you at the end. But its certainly legal unless its a no-drafting race. If you are swimming with another experienced swimmer, you may be able to work out an alternating pattern where you take turns in leading and drafting.
Just don't keep hitting the feet of the person in front of you--that's not really illegal either if its accidental, but it is incredibly annoying and leads to misunderstandings.
It would be poor etiquette to just draft without taking a turn. No question about that. Sorry I misunderstood. People do get annoyed and reasonably so about things like that. Hitting their feet just makes it worse....
I was just having a debate with someone, I've always heard it was bad etiquette (as opposed to against any rules, assuming draft legal) to not take your turn at the front and then take the win
I recently watched the replay of the 2008 Olympics Men's 10k Open Water Swim. The winner, Maarten van der Weuden, sat in the pack the entire time and drafted. He sprinted at the very end and probably only led for about the last 100m. That's just the way the game is played. The other interesting thing about him was that he was sighting practically every stroke - very unusual.
It is a race. Not a swim party. While it is admirable that you are concerned with etiquette, those concerns are better applied during training. I can not think of one sport where a competitor's win is discounted because they chose a winning tactic. If I have someone drafting behind me I either swim them off my feet by constantly raising the pace, or I surge by alternating slowing down and then speeding up. If this doesn't work you can just keep slowing down until the person is convinced you are "dying" and passes you. Then you just jump on their feet. It's a race, and a big part of racing is the mental part.
PS I know of no USMS open water rule that bars drafting for non-pool events, although USMS rules specify
303.8 DISQUALIFICATIONS
A disqualification can be made only by the referee, the starter or a judge within whose jurisdiction
the infraction has been committed. Swimmers shall be disqualified if they:
303.8.1 Or their personal escort wilfully or intentionally delay the progress of
another swimmer. Accidental contact, especially at the start, shall not be
considered a disqualification. However, the flagrant disregard of another
swimmer’s rights shall result in disqualification.
303.8.2 Fail to complete the prescribed distance or course within the preannounced
time.
303.8.3 Fail to follow race rules.
303.8.4 Receive assistance by pulling on the cable or buoys at the turn or on the
course.
303.8.5 Violate rules on escorted swims as described in articles 303.2.3 and 303.2.4
or receive similar assistance from any craft on the course.
303.8.6 Receive unauthorized assistance at the start or finish.
303.8.7 Violate swimwear rules.
303.8.8 Draft off another swimmer in long-distance pool events.
303.8.9 Swim in a manner in which their personal safety is jeopardized.
303.8.10—Act in an unsportsmanlike or unsafe manner within the swimming
venue.
I agree completely with E=H20 and Steven Munatones: If I lose to someone who drafts me for 2 miles and then sprints past me in the last 200m, I might have swum strong but I didn't swim very smart. If I am in the water to compete, I need to pay attention to my competitors. And just in case someone has snuck up on me, I should swim absolutely as hard as I can for the last 200m anyway.
This situation happened to me at this year's USMS 1-mile championship. I chided myself all the way home for not having realized my competitor was behind me until she moved aside and used her far superior sprinting ability to beat me to the finish by 3 seconds. But she won fair and square, and I congratulated her on a great swim.
nah, different discussion. not to hijack the board for cycling, but I am talking about bad etiquette to break away when the leader crashes or is taking a piss. A bona fide breakaway is a different story.
But your initial question was about something more like a "bona fide breakaway" and less like overtaking or attacking during a leader's mechanical problem or crash. I don't know what situation in an OW swim would be analogous to a crash, or how the rest of the racers would even know about it, or even whether such situations occur often enough to have their own etiquette.
It is a race. Not a swim party. While it is admirable that you are concerned with etiquette, those concerns are better applied during training. I can not think of one sport where a competitor's win is discounted because they chose a winning tactic. If I have someone drafting behind me I either swim them off my feet by constantly raising the pace, or I surge by alternating slowing down and then speeding up. If this doesn't work you can just keep slowing down until the person is convinced you are "dying" and passes you. Then you just jump on their feet. It's a race, and a big part of racing is the mental part.
PS I know of no USMS open water rule that bars drafting for non-pool events, although USMS rules specify
303.8 DISQUALIFICATIONS
A disqualification can be made only by the referee, the starter or a judge within whose jurisdiction
the infraction has been committed. Swimmers shall be disqualified if they:
303.8.1 Or their personal escort wilfully or intentionally delay the progress of
another swimmer. Accidental contact, especially at the start, shall not be
considered a disqualification. However, the flagrant disregard of another
swimmer’s rights shall result in disqualification.
303.8.2 Fail to complete the prescribed distance or course within the preannounced
time.
303.8.3 Fail to follow race rules.
303.8.4 Receive assistance by pulling on the cable or buoys at the turn or on the
course.
303.8.5 Violate rules on escorted swims as described in articles 303.2.3 and 303.2.4
or receive similar assistance from any craft on the course.
303.8.6 Receive unauthorized assistance at the start or finish.
303.8.7 Violate swimwear rules.
303.8.8 Draft off another swimmer in long-distance pool events.
303.8.9 Swim in a manner in which their personal safety is jeopardized.
303.8.10—Act in an unsportsmanlike or unsafe manner within the swimming
venue.
Stage cycling. If a group takes off after the race leader crashes or is taking a nature break, they do not make friends in the peloton and it is seen as unsportsmanlike
In stage racing if a rider breaks away and another rider jumps on it seems to me that there is the cutomary discussion of working together so the break away succeeds, if one rider is measurablely stronger, the weaker rider risks helping the stonger who then breaks away for the win leaving the weaker rider to be swallowed up by the peloton. This of course would be foolish. If the stronger rider wants to Ho for the win he needs to ride the weaker of his wheel even if he has been sitting on the whole time (or so it would seem)
In stage racing if a rider breaks away and another rider jumps on it seems to me that there is the cutomary discussion of working together so the break away succeeds, if one rider is measurablely stronger, the weaker rider risks helping the stonger who then breaks away for the win leaving the weaker rider to be swallowed up by the peloton. This of course would be foolish. If the stronger rider wants to Ho for the win he needs to ride the weaker of his wheel even if he has been sitting on the whole time (or so it would seem)
nah, different discussion. not to hijack the board for cycling, but I am talking about bad etiquette to break away when the leader crashes or is taking a piss. A bona fide breakaway is a different story
Levi knows about it more than us, about 9 paragraphs down
cycling.lohudblogs.com/.../
also
www.csc.com/.../12171-get_up_to_speed_on_the_tour_de_france
"There are no set rules on the conduct of the opposing riders, though race etiquette frowns on attacking a rider who has suffered a mechanical problem. When Lance Armstrong crashed on Luz Ardiden in the French Pyrenees in the 2003 Tour, rivals slowed down to allow the Texan to rejoin the group before resuming the day’s battle."
"Etiquette calls for riders not to attack when another rider is answering nature’s call."
