Compare open water speed to pool speed?

In my experience, if you rule out currents and wind chop the biggest factors are: - (in)ability to sight, that is to plot a course and swim straight - the need to detour around people (sometimes groups of people) in order to pass them The first can be countered by practicing swimming towards things in a lake, without looking up too often. The second is hard to avoid. Seems like sooner or later I always end up having to swim over around or through someone. I suppose you could avoid that by seeding yourself at the very front with the elites, if it's a self-seeded race. Assuming you're fast that is. Edit: to answer the question, it's a safe bet you'll end up going slightly slower than a comparable distance in the pool. For example, if you can swim 1:20 100s in the pool, you might end up with a 1:30 pace in open water. That's what happened to me recently. Even though I know I was swimming at a good pace, I also know I swam more yardage than originally intended! I was surprised to find that I swam faster in a recent open water race than the same distance in a pool. But the race was timed to have swimmers get a tide assist, and also going from fresh water to salt water, I had more buoyancy. I would have thought these things would have been offset by the chop and my increasing seasickness, but the latter, I think, made me more and more reluctant to stop for food, which also might have taken some time off. (When I swam the same distance in training, I did stop periodically for gels and water.) But hard to say in a lake since it's going to be fresh water. But no turns, so that should help!

I bet,..... maybe 2 minutes. But then again,..if there is chop and recalcitrant currents,..maybe 2 minutes longer. I HATE turning around in a pool.

In my experience, if you rule out currents and wind chop the biggest factors are: - (in)ability to sight, that is to plot a course and swim straight - the need to detour around people (sometimes groups of people) in order to pass them The first can be countered by practicing swimming towards things in a lake, without looking up too often. The second is hard to avoid. Seems like sooner or later I always end up having to swim over around or through someone. I suppose you could avoid that by seeding yourself at the very front with the elites, if it's a self-seeded race. Assuming you're fast that is. Edit: to answer the question, it's a safe bet you'll end up going slightly slower than a comparable distance in the pool. For example, if you can swim 1:20 100s in the pool, you might end up with a 1:30 pace in open water. That's what happened to me recently. Even though I know I was swimming at a good pace, I also know I swam more yardage than originally intended!

Lots of things as mentioned above such as tides, currents that can increase speed. Floating or swimming in a tide you can move along at a surprising speed! Thats if its going your way. Overall your dealing with chop, tides, sighting, no resting nothing under your feet, hopefully no jellys (salt water swims)and generally speaking much greater distances then races in pools so you have to relax and swim at your pace..which can be slower or faster depending on you.

Are your times different in a 25m pool to a 50m pool? If you are 'slower' in the longer pool then expect to be 'slower' again in the Open water. This is especially true if you are a very efficient strong turner. In my case, my OW times are comparable to my pool times in a 50m pool. Some of the better turners are surprised that I keep up with them, they whip me in the pool. Some swimmers feel the fatigue a bit sooner as there is no 'rest of the wall glide' in the OW. Technique, efficient stroke, adaptable strokes in rough water conditions and appropraite training have taken my rankings to new heights. It depends on your training in OW. As has been mentioned, sighting, navigating, choice of positioning in the start, drafting and the unavoidable contact and how you work through this. Cooler water, chop (lakes can get choppy) wind. Also how you deal with weeds, seeing the bottom, fish, junk, can play a part as well. Most important, keep an open and relaxed state of mind, your eyes open, pace yourself well, and swim the straightest line possible. The guy you are drafting may not be going straight, nor the main pack. The swimmer who stays on line, not necessarily the fastest swimmer places better. Have Fun Outside the Lines. Kiwi

As I stated above - this is a lake swim. No tides, only the slightest of currents (since this lake is a dammed river). My own thought is that I will be slower overall, mostly because I won't swim straight and will have to periodically look around to stay on course. I think if I didn't have to worry about direction, I might swim more smoothly because of no turns.

You get pluses and minuses. Its harder to tell how well you are staying on pace since there is no deck clock and set distance checks like a wall. So you can get yourself in trouble going out to fast. If you practice drafting you can really make up time with less effort.

Very good thoughts. Thanks to all so far. My racing speed in a 50M pool is proportional to my times in a 25Y pool for freestyle. Breaststroke times in LCM have been disappointing so far but I think the loss of turns in breaststroke is more significant. I swim both SCY and LCM throughout the year. This lake (Lake Travis, near Austin) is very deep. Unless they route us close to certain shorelines we shouldn't see any vegetation at all. The race is a Saturday morning so I expect we'll see some waves, whether wind or boat, a few hours after the start. Drafting is an aspect I forgot to consider. Most of my training is split lane, not circle swimming, so I almost never benefit from drafting. I expect sighting will be a key. The race by the way is a relay, 20 minutes per swimmer in the first shift, then 15 minutes, then 10 minutes until the total distance of 12 miles is reached.

I swim some open water, and have found that I like them, but find my times to be slower...mostly due to problems with other swimmers in the way, gettting boxed in, etc. I however do not miss the turns as I do open turns and therefore get no advantange by them, if you are a good turn person might make you slower.....sighting is not a problem as I always have plenty of people to follow :). The drafting issue is interesting, what is the best position to be in to draft?

Drafting in the pool is a no-brainer. It can speed you up by a solid 5 seconds per 100 behind freestyler, and even more behind a big breaststroker. The closer you are to the leader, and the bigger he is, the higher is your benefit. I would not recommend following a 200+ lb elite male without asking his permission first from "parking lot safety" standpoint :-). In the open water drafting your friend, who is willing to pull you through the race can be as helpful as in the pool. Your leader has to be absolutely committed to the cause, should keep course, and pace that is perfect for you. So, you need to find a leader who can hold pace at least 5 seconds per 100 faster than you and practice this "tandem" in the OW. Teaming up in a manner that would benefit every team member requires outstanding level of cooperation, because the exchanges are lengthy. You loose more on exchanges than you save by drafting. The draft stream is very narrow, therefore only one swimmer can benefit from following the leader, so the third swimmer would have to follow second swimmer and eventually make up 2 body lengths with 2 gaps =~ 4-5 yards. Here goes your 3-4 seconds per exchange for the third swimmer. Even more for larger teams. One weaker link on the team will kill the whole idea, so at contemporary level of the OW sport team racing is not known as an advantage to the faster individual swimmer. It is most difficult, or not even practical to draft off of your competitor for a relatively long (30 seconds or more) time. 1. Staying the course is likely to be a problem. You don't want to add zigzags of your leader to your own zigzags. Unfortunately, effects of two independent factors never subtract from each other, they always add up and this is not a joke. Look up a book in mathematical statistics, section on ANOVA for solid discussion of the principles behind this steatement. 2. Optimal race pace strategy from physical and physiological standpoint is zero positive or negative acceleration. The less you deviate from your average pace, the less energy you have to exort. If in doubt, try to swim 1000 holding 1:00 on every 50 and then compare it to holding 1:30 on the odd 50s, and 0:30 on the evens. You will cover 1000 in 20 minutes in both sets, but what a difference in terms of your energy spent. So, keeping even pace is the key to best performance. By deliberately adjusting your pace to somebody else's pace you are adding (slower / faster) pattern to your own (tipically already imperfect) pacing. Therefore you are at risk of wasting your precious "gas". Having said all that, for the short portions of the race, though, never pass up an opportunity. In open water as in the pool, the closer you are to the feet of your leader, and the wider "tube" of turbulense behind your leader is , the higher effect of the draft.