Times for 50m freestyle (avg->good->great)?

I agree with you about the subjectiveness of the question, but I think that's what the OP wanted -- a sense of what Masters swimmers tend to think of as fast. I also agree with you that the answers will be all over the map. But when you say "I don't want anyone to think that I feel "beginner" is a dig or negative opinion of someone" -- read the post just below yours, and imagine how someone who has been training and working hard for all of those years will feel to be called a beginner. And when you say, "When i see people in my age group going 30+ in a 50free the first thing on my mind is that they haven't trained enough to step from beginner to average" again, I think it would be hard for such a person not to feel insulted (i.e., that they just haven't worked hard enough). It's great that you started early enough and had enough natural athletic ability to swim so fast after only 4 weeks of training. But that is not true of most people, and frankly, it's comments like yours that make people think that Masters (or this discussion board) is only for top competitive swimmers. I'm saying this not because I want to start an argument (I don't), but because I think you must not be aware of the vast number of people who have been swimming and working hard for many years without achieving your speeds. I think you're also not aware of how elitist your comments sound. I don't think you intended them that way, but you're not representing the majority of Masters' swimmers experiences. :applaud: Well said - I must admit my first thought was "heck I've never gone sub 30 om 50m free and I'm no beginner" But then again I am a girlie and I never did the whole USAS/college swimming thing, although did compete as a kid. So totally subjective - for me sub 30 on 50m free is very fast and sub 1.00 on 100m free likely unachievable. Sub 1.00 on 100 yds is what I'm aiming at with the right training in a couple of years time. To answer the original question though, I agree, the NQTs, motivaton charts and the event ranking listings are all good places to gauge what is fast or middling for competitive Masters swimmers in your age group.

By this scale (assuming its LCM) I would be average with a 27.40 at age 33. I wouldn't consider myself to be average by any means either. (If its SCY then I'm elite). I don't think the 50 free is THE event to judge the speediness of a swimmer, and either is any other event for that matter. We're all different though. My answers were to the OP, who asked about meters, so that was meter times. Scm or lcm. Not really much difference as far as this conversation is concerned. I too, fall into my own 'average' category :) On absolute speed, I'm not sure how else you'd judge "speedy" than a 50 free? 25 free? 10 free?

But when you say "I don't want anyone to think that I feel "beginner" is a dig or negative opinion of someone" -- read the post just below yours, and imagine how someone who has been training and working hard for all of those years will feel to be called a beginner. And when you say, "When i see people in my age group going 30+ in a 50free the first thing on my mind is that they haven't trained enough to step from beginner to average" again, I think it would be hard for such a person not to feel insulted (i.e., that they just haven't worked hard enough). It's great that you started early enough and had enough natural athletic ability to swim so fast after only 4 weeks of training. But that is not true of most people, and frankly, it's comments like yours that make people think that Masters (or this discussion board) is only for top competitive swimmers. I'm saying this not because I want to start an argument (I don't), but because I think you must not be aware of the vast number of people who have been swimming and working hard for many years without achieving your speeds. I think you're also not aware of how elitist your comments sound. I don't think you intended them that way, but you're not representing the majority of Masters' swimmers experiences. I understand what you're saying. Makes sense. Perhaps it is a bit elitist based on what I named the "categories". Call it beginner, or novice, or group C,D,E, or F if it sounds better. To classify times though, some people are classified in lower groups than others. Despite perhaps years of hard work, they may not make what I or others consider average. I'm not sure you can fix this perception of lower classification while still making classifications however broad? No matter what time i picked for the threshold, someone wouldn't like it... but the OP wanted 3 groups. As far as not representing majority... subjective opinion was asked for a second time after swimosaur produced a more objective look. >30 seconds for 30 year old men is, I feel, a broad range for beginner... and thats what OP asked for. :)

:applaud: Well said - I must admit my first thought was "heck I've never gone sub 30 om 50m free and I'm no beginner" But then again I am a girlie and I never did the whole USAS/college swimming thing, although did compete as a kid. So totally subjective - for me sub 30 on 50m free is very fast and sub 1.00 on 100m free likely unachievable. Sub 1.00 on 100 yds is what I'm aiming at with the right training in a couple of years time. DO keep in mind I only gave those time guidelines based on my opinion of broad times that 30-34 males should achieve to move to the next level. That was not a catch-all classification for masters as a whole. I suppose I should've never commented here :worms:

First what classifies a beginner? I would say experience, not ability. So a beginner would be anyone without former swimming coaching or competition, basically within the last year never swam an entire pool leangth. Intermediate would be this person up to the 3 year mark with successive training. Advanced is 3 year's up. Would this sound reasonable? Fmracing, what is your 500? It would be reasonable classifications for this topic if the OP hadn't asked about times specifically :) My 500? Infinity. I never swim it, even in practice the most I do at a time is 300. I did 2x300 scm, in by 3:45, 4:00 interval about a week ago without too much trouble. If you convert 1:15 per 100m, I can only give you an estimate that I can go under 5:30scy for the 500. I would normally be reasonably confident I could hit that TODAY from a pushoff... but today is my swimming off-day, lol. PB was 5:02 in 1998 lol. Also it seems as though the word "beginner" has struck a nerve here. I only used that because OP used it.

Beware. This thread could easily lead to talk of late blooming and VO2max...

I agree. If this is true maybe there's an error in the tables. A 26.6 seems like a much better swim to me than a 1:00.1. I don't even feel worthy of a quad-a on that swim lol. I don't think it is an error though... the 100 lcm times were just that slow last year in my age group. I was amazed that a double-o could make top 10 :confused:

Two months later that December, after several months of being stuck on the plateau of a 1:03 100 free SCY, I finally broke the minute barrier with a time of 58.93. At the time, I talked about technique and being ever so slightly tapered, but I knew it then and I know it now, it was mental, it was the willingness to step back, be subjective instead of struggling in vain to be objective, and say I'm a fast swimmer and nobody's gonna change my mind. :applaud:

Two months later that December, after several months of being stuck on the plateau of a 1:03 100 free SCY, I finally broke the minute barrier with a time of 58.93. At the time, I talked about technique and being ever so slightly tapered, but I knew it then and I know it now, it was mental, it was the willingness to step back, be subjective instead of struggling in vain to be objective, and say I'm a fast swimmer and nobody's gonna change my mind. Word. When I finally break 1:00 in SCY 100 free at 40+ I am elite. I'll challenge anyone that says otherwise to a fistfight.

I'll challenge anyone that says otherwise to a fistfight. Wouldn't that be better saved for a boxing forum? lol