The anti-sandbag law:
"if a swimmer enters an event with a time significantly slower or faster than that swimmer's recorded time in the past two years, the meet director may, after a discussion with the swimmer, change the seeded time to a realistic time" (104.5.5.A(10)).
Concerning my Auburn nationals entry, I confess, when faced with a 7 hour 2 stop flight and 3:45 nonstop at an earlier time, I did what any warm-blooded middle-aged American swimmer with low self-esteem would do--sandbag my entry so I could catch the earlier flight, thus diminishing the possible time spent sitting next to a 400 pound Alabama slammer with sleep apnea wearing nothing but overalls and body odor. Of course, I was caught in my bold fabrication and my time was "fixed."
USMS seems to have an identity problem. Are we hard core with rigid qualifying times? It would seem not as 2 of my not-so-speedy family members were allowed to swim four events last year in Puerto Rico. If we are not hard core, why does anybody care that I sandbag? More to the point, why can one person enter a crappy time and another cannot? Just wondering.:)
I don't think that is sandbagging.If you think that you will go slower than you do that is just an honest mistake.In sandbagging you know you will swim faster than your entry time.
Agreed. Or it is unintentional sandbagging that ppl might mistake for the real thing.
I think some ppl have surprised themselves with how fast they could go without the suits.
I like how many of the USA-S meets require that the swimmers be entered at their best time, whether this be from a regular meet, or their time from their Jr. National meet last year, etc.
I've been entering myself with my best times as well in the USA-S meets, and coming close or beating them in the meet. Even in Masters meets I enter my best times. At Mesa, I reverse sandbagged, and entered times that were 1-2 seconds per 100 faster than my best times with anticipation of swimming those times. Then when I swam the times, the whole rest of my heat was a mile ahead of me. It would have been better just to enter my actual best time from the past year.
I think it is just best to enter your best time (of at least the past year) and swim where you get seeded.
No one will care (except maybe yourself) if you swim 4 seconds slower than your seed time...it's Masters swimming after all. Have fun!
In Mesa, I was in the fastest heat for my events along with my usual friends and competitors. It's fun to race head-to-head against the best people in the final heat, where on any given day any of us could pull out a win.
A couple of the sprint events, however, were won overall by someone in the second-to-last heat. This seemed unusual. Maybe they had the swim of their lives and dropped a second+ in the 50. And maybe they sandbagged an entry time. Who am I to say?
But to address the original post, I think it's questionable sportsmanship to enter a slow time purely to get clean water ... especially at big meets.
Folks,
These comments are about knowingly entering a slower (or even faster) time that you know you will swim for an event. And are directed more towards doing this in large meets such as Nationals or NE champs, etc. Local meets usually have so much variance normally per heat and so few heats in total that an intentionally false time will not have much affect on the timeline.
I'm sorry but asking a meet director, ref, governing body, your priest, the paperboy or your pet squirrel to enforce making sure swimmers enter with a realistic seed time is just nannyism. If everyone was as honest as possible there would be no need for enforcement. But there needs to be some attempt at realistic entry times. You can't compare a swim meet with multiple events and multiple heats to any other sporting event because a swim meet is one of the few places (track is another) that will have 10s to multiple 100s of individual heats. If a meet has 400 heats and each heat on average takes 10 seconds longer due to poor seeding (and one sandbagged entry for each event can skew every heat of the entire event) that's 4000 seconds or over an hour added to the timeline.
Yes, we know that training for meet X and then finding out you're in a sucky lane ain't fair. Well, if that's your lane because everyone seeded to the best of thier knowledge, then it's as fair as it's gonna get.
If you don't like a meet format, petition to get it changed, or don't go, or go and deal with it or run your own meet.
If you have logistical issues with a meet, petition the meed director for an exception, or alter your plans, or change your events, or don't go, or keep your plans and risk not swimming your event, or start running a meet that can support your logistical requirements.
It comes down to this, competing in any swim meet is a privledge not a right. No one is required to run meets and there is nothing in the Constitution about folks having opportunites to swim in meets. If we cannot be considerate to our fellow competitors by doing our best to enter a meet with as accurate a time as possible (note: AS POSSIBLE, if you have never swam that event, so be it, but maybe time trialing in practice?) for the circumstances (split requests should never be entered with a swimmer's typical time, pad it some to reflect the cool down and let the meet director know your intention when entereing, also having the ref announce your intention before the heat starts would be the polite thing to do), then why bother entering?
I used to be indifferent towards sandbagging in general (but still gave individuals a hard time about it) but as I have been involved in setting up and running meets, sandbagging sucks as it blows up timelines past projections.
A reason I don't like entering best times is that not only do I feel bad if I don't do that seed time, I feel guilty for displacing someone else who swam better and could have had a better lane placement had I been less optimistic with my seed time.
A couple of the sprint events, however, were won overall by someone in the second-to-last heat. This seemed unusual. Maybe they had the swim of their lives and dropped a second+ in the 50. And maybe they sandbagged an entry time. Who am I to say?I saw that in more than one event as well. I think a lot of folks used seed times from previous years where they used a bodysuit (e.g Atlanta). Slower swims from the veterans in the champ heat combined with a fast newcomer seeded in a slower heat could be the reason for this. When I used bodysuit times for seeding and swam in a jammer in Atlanta, I got creamed in the championship heats. Hopefully by next year this aspect will be sorted out.
A reason I don't like entering best times is that not only do I feel bad if I don't do that seed time, I feel guilty for displacing someone else who swam better and could have had a better lane placement had I been less optimistic with my seed time.
I hear ya! Entering my best times at Mesa was a big mistake, exactly for the reasons you mentioned. :badday:
I think a lot of folks used seed times from previous years where they used a bodysuit (e.g Atlanta).
Also, many people may have sandbagged due to an overestimation of the suit effect. Hadn't really thought about that.
For me, the question is a moral one. Sandbagging is is wrong. It is breaking the rules to gain an advantage.
Yes, it isn't the worst thing a swimmer could do, but it does violate the spirit of a shared community.
For me, the question is a moral one. Sandbagging is is wrong. It is breaking the rules to gain an advantage.
Yes, it isn't the worst thing a swimmer could do, but it does violate the spirit of a shared community.
Wow. Wound kinda tight there, mister.
The rules are not being broken and it is a personal choice if someone decides to enter extra slow times. You don't have to like it, but it isn't the end of society, either.
