Flip or open turns in distance races?

I actually witnessed a high school level swimmer do a 100 free with open turns in under 58 seconds...

That's a nice time! Good swimming! I agree that in the 200 back, O2 management is important.Thanks. The OP hit on a topic that I feel like I've had a breakthrough on, so I thought it was a good example of doing something that's eschewed at the elite level, but may help us down here at the mere mortal level.

In a 500 fly that is done during a "freestyle" event, I am not sure I would worry about flipturns or a lot of dolphin kicks off the walls. That would really make the last 400 hurt Well...after my fly day, the 500 being the last event, I'm definitely exhausted, but did very well, and had fun! 't do it, or don't know the satisfaction you get from accomplishing a hard task, etc. One of them is the 50-some year old hot shot breaskstroker in our LMSC that I'm going to beat in his events at the LMSC Champs...just to rub it in a little more... :banana:

I think today in a few hours I'm going to choose to do OPEN TURNS for my 500. Why? Of course because it's tough to do flip turns when you're swimming butterfly! I can't guarantee 2 hand touches on every wall though. :)

Congrats on the swim!! That is an impressive time. I am going to experiment with that for a bit in my 200 back. The last 3 turns are always my worst. I have worked very hard on improving my underwater dolphin kick but it still falls apart in the 200. Do you feel that you were able to push off the all with more "umph" on each turn since you weren't staying underwater to kick? How were your splits in this previous race compared to the one before? I would guess they were close together on each 50. I will keep on improving the underwater kick for the 50 and 100 but may start learning toward this for the 200.Thanks wookie. Yeah, my dolphin kicks are lame so it was easy to chuck them, and I'm not sure why I didn't think of it sooner for the 200. Yes, since I didn't have to worry about when to start dolphin kicking it allowed me to concentrate on the pushoff a bit more I think. Comparing the two races, it's tough to glean any info because I paced them very differently. Last year I took it out too slow and had a bunch of energy at the end, while this year I went out fast and tried to survive: 2009 (w/2 poor dolphin kicks off of walls): 34.40; 36.82 (1:11.22); 37.11 (1:48.33); 34.29 (2:22.62) 2010 (w/no dolphin kicks, streamline): 32.27; 34.27 (1:06.54); 35.44 (1:41.98); 35.69 (2:17.67) Had I tried to stay under and kick the same way this year, I wouldn't have been able to hold the pace on the last 50- I was dying something fierce. jaadams brings up a good point and made me think about something. If I were doing a 500 fly, I would HATE to have to do flip turns- I think this would make it infinitely harder than doing open turns. So referring back to the OP, I still think open turns are the way to go at this point.

Thanks. The OP hit on a topic that I feel like I've had a breakthrough on, so I thought it was a good example of doing something that's eschewed at the elite level, but may help us down here at the mere mortal level. Congrats on the swim!! That is an impressive time. I am going to experiment with that for a bit in my 200 back. The last 3 turns are always my worst. I have worked very hard on improving my underwater dolphin kick but it still falls apart in the 200. Do you feel that you were able to push off the all with more "umph" on each turn since you weren't staying underwater to kick? How were your splits in this previous race compared to the one before? I would guess they were close together on each 50. I will keep on improving the underwater kick for the 50 and 100 but may start learning toward this for the 200.

Thanks wookie. Yeah, my dolphin kicks are lame so it was easy to chuck them, and I'm not sure why I didn't think of it sooner for the 200. Yes, since I didn't have to worry about when to start dolphin kicking it allowed me to concentrate on the pushoff a bit more I think. Comparing the two races, it's tough to glean any info because I paced them very differently. Last year I took it out too slow and had a bunch of energy at the end, while this year I went out fast and tried to survive: 2009 (w/2 poor dolphin kicks off of walls): 34.40; 36.82 (1:11.22); 37.11 (1:48.33); 34.29 (2:22.62) 2010 (w/no dolphin kicks, streamline): 32.27; 34.27 (1:06.54); 35.44 (1:41.98); 35.69 (2:17.67) Had I tried to stay under and kick the same way this year, I wouldn't have been able to hold the pace on the last 50- I was dying something fierce. jaadams brings up a good point and made me think about something. If I were doing a 500 fly, I would HATE to have to do flip turns- I think this would make it infinitely harder than doing open turns. So referring back to the OP, I still think open turns are the way to go at this point. In a 500 fly that is done during a "freestyle" event, I am not sure I would worry about flipturns or a lot of dolphin kicks off the walls. That would really make the last 400 hurt

Well...after my fly day, the 500 being the last event, I'm definitely exhausted, but did very well, and had fun! 't do it, or don't know the satisfaction you get from accomplishing a hard task, etc. One of them is the 50-some year old hot shot breaskstroker in our LMSC that I'm going to beat in his events at the LMSC Champs...just to rub it in a little more... :banana: Great job on your 500 fly, definitely not cool that people said it was stupid. 500 reverse IM, ok that would be stupid. (making a mental note to do one someday) After you beat that breaststroker, I recommend having a nice ham sandwich. :cheerleader: