So earlier at practice I experimented with flat feet coming off every wall. There was a very noticeable difference. I could surface with ease past the flags, without any DKs. In my first two years of swimming, I have used just the balls (and toes) of my feet in coming off the walls.
Flat feet (that is, both ball and heel) feels a little awkward right now, like any technique change, but I think I'm going to start adjusting to it for permanent use.
Thanks to Jim Thornton who suggested I make this a poll!
While I have been following this discussion, I haven't weighed in b/c I think the stakes are so low.
I think comparing to long jump, high jump or dunks is misleading because you are running up to the jump. And I think it is hard to tell from the swimming videos posted (tho I admit I haven't looked at all of them; again, not really a big issue IMO).
I paid closer attention to my own turns. Weight on the balls of the feet, no question, but my heels brush the wall on many turns, and probably come pretty close on the others. Coming close to a flat foot -- while keeping the weight on the balls of your feet -- probably engages the calves some and increases propulsion.
Why do I think this isn't that big a deal?
-- most people have a decent sense of how to jump
-- quads provide most of the propulsion in a pushoff
-- SPEED of the turn is probably much more important than any of the stuff mentioned in this thread. If you are slow getting your legs over on a flipturn, take your time planting your feet, etc, then I don't care how strong your pushoff is, it is going to be a slow turn (similar considerations for an open turn).
I've been swimming for awhile, I've heard coaches say many things about turns. The vast majority of these things relate to getting into the proper position quickly, having a good streamline off the turn, and breathing into/out of the turn.
I guess that being flatfooted (or not) would be part of the "proper position" but, again, my experience is that MUCH more attention is paid to the proper angle for the legs and hips. AND GETTING TO THAT POINT QUICKLY!
If you are spending any significant time at all getting into the exact optimum angle of your foot to the wall, it will slow you down, period. Your approach and turn should be such that the instant your feet hit the wall, you should be in a position to push off (or very close to it: open turns are a little different). Think of it as a hot plate: get your feet off the darn wall!
I should also point out that some of the most painful injuries I've ever suffered while swimming have to do with slamming my heels on the gutter on flipturns. I sure would hate to advocate being "flat-footed" if it leads to more incidents like that. I cringe even remembering some of those.
YMMV, of course. To a certain degree I think tomtopo and the other guy are talking past each other. I think that tomtopo is mostly arguing for greater engagement of the calves -- hard to disagree -- and the other guy is arguing that one shouldn't have the weight on the back of the foot. Again, hard to argue with that.
While I have been following this discussion, I haven't weighed in b/c I think the stakes are so low.
I think comparing to long jump, high jump or dunks is misleading because you are running up to the jump. And I think it is hard to tell from the swimming videos posted (tho I admit I haven't looked at all of them; again, not really a big issue IMO).
I paid closer attention to my own turns. Weight on the balls of the feet, no question, but my heels brush the wall on many turns, and probably come pretty close on the others. Coming close to a flat foot -- while keeping the weight on the balls of your feet -- probably engages the calves some and increases propulsion.
Why do I think this isn't that big a deal?
-- most people have a decent sense of how to jump
-- quads provide most of the propulsion in a pushoff
-- SPEED of the turn is probably much more important than any of the stuff mentioned in this thread. If you are slow getting your legs over on a flipturn, take your time planting your feet, etc, then I don't care how strong your pushoff is, it is going to be a slow turn (similar considerations for an open turn).
I've been swimming for awhile, I've heard coaches say many things about turns. The vast majority of these things relate to getting into the proper position quickly, having a good streamline off the turn, and breathing into/out of the turn.
I guess that being flatfooted (or not) would be part of the "proper position" but, again, my experience is that MUCH more attention is paid to the proper angle for the legs and hips. AND GETTING TO THAT POINT QUICKLY!
If you are spending any significant time at all getting into the exact optimum angle of your foot to the wall, it will slow you down, period. Your approach and turn should be such that the instant your feet hit the wall, you should be in a position to push off (or very close to it: open turns are a little different). Think of it as a hot plate: get your feet off the darn wall!
I should also point out that some of the most painful injuries I've ever suffered while swimming have to do with slamming my heels on the gutter on flipturns. I sure would hate to advocate being "flat-footed" if it leads to more incidents like that. I cringe even remembering some of those.
YMMV, of course. To a certain degree I think tomtopo and the other guy are talking past each other. I think that tomtopo is mostly arguing for greater engagement of the calves -- hard to disagree -- and the other guy is arguing that one shouldn't have the weight on the back of the foot. Again, hard to argue with that.
