I think it was Ande that said "it's not how fast you swim, it's how fast you slow down." I read that a few years ago and keep on coming back to it as I have watched my kids grow in their USA Swimming careers. When kids are around 8-10, many of the races are 50s. Lots of kids can swim relatively fast 50s compared to other kids even when their stroke technique is truly awful. But then once the clock strikes 11 (years old), all of the 50s go away (less one) - and magically many of the kids with bad technique who seemed fast start losing to kids in the 100s and 200s with superior strokes. My question is at what age are we masters swimmers when we start thinking 50 backstroke, 50 butterfly and 50 breaststroke are OK to race again? It is not OK. It brings our sport down to a level where people who train only 100s or less and focus on 25s are taking over our pools. No more I say!!! I think USMS rules should only allow these races for people in their 70s and older. Who is with me?!!!
:worms: :bolt:
Next time you find yourself frowning on the sprinter folks, try this little set:
10x50 stroke of your choice on 2:00 interval - goal on each is best time +5s (from a push) or best time +2s from a dive. Have fun and let me know how you did.
:joker: I swam almost this exact set a couple weeks ago. It might have only been 8x50 fly though rather than 10 (I'm not sure), and the interval was definitely 1:30 rather than 2:00. For reference, my best Masters 50y fly time is 26.40. From pushoffs, I started out doing 31's, but eventually drifted down to 30's. Easy peasy. Readers of The Butterfly Lane are probably wondering why I was doing such a simple set. The focus swim of my workout that day was the all-out 400 IM that I swam just prior to doing those 50's. That's why. :rofl:
I'm new to this web site. Not new to swimming. So I was surprised to see how many masters swimmers focus on 50s. And then I pointed out the cycle of young ones and older ones focusing on the 50s. :argue:
Why does this surprise you? :confused: It seems quite obvious to me...
As for "pointing out the cycle of young ones and older ones focusing on the 50s", you did WAY more than that. Refer back to the quote I included in my previous post, from your original post. And, you wonder why several of us are reacting the way we are??? :bitching:
And, oh, by the way, I may be a sprinter, but I have total admiration and respect for distance swimmers! :bow: I've been a fan of Lynn Cox since I was a kid (and I'm 48). Go ahead, Google the name and see what kind of distances she swam- and where. :bow: :bow: Believe me, if I had the physical and mental makeup to be a distance swimmer, I would be happy to join Lump and the others. But, I'm not wired for distances and I'm grateful for the opportunity to swim 50s, in addition to my 100 and 200 breaststroke. :bliss:
A distance swimmer will fare much better in a sprint than a sprinter will fare in a distance event.
Oh, that's not true. Watching distance people try to swim fast can be pretty entertaining; the difference between their 50 pace and their mile pace is very subtle to the uneducated. (As in, it doesn't exist.)
Anyone knows that mid-D types are the only people who can master both disciplines. :)
I find it odd that the OP said something to the effect that sprint-specialists are taking over the pools. The more common masters complaint in my experience that the triathlete-like endurance swimmer -- only interested in long, boring freestyle sets at or near LT -- have taken over the pool.
As far as being able to succeed without working hard, well that only gets you so far in either discipline. And I know too many distance-types who equate "working hard" with simply "grinding out the yards." Although their workouts seem impressive and they are indeed in good aerobic form, they have one speed in practice and never deviate from it. Explosiveness and power are also things that must be earned through training.
As far as technique: while it is true that sprinters sometimes sacrifice efficiency for power, they have to pay far greater attention to detail than distance people do. A blown start or turn, these and similar things can ruin an entire season for a sprinter. The concentration required is much greater than for distance events. When you get up on the blocks for a distance event, all you need to do is be relaxed; the outcome is pretty much already determined by that point.
Not true of the sprints; the pressure of every little detail is far greater, the consequences of small mistakes can be huge. No wonder they are a little neurotic.
A distance swimmer will fare much better in a sprint than a sprinter will fare in a distance event.
Sadly, this is quite true. Still, occasionally we are boneheaded enough to enter them anyway.
Wow! Never did I expect to get such a hostile response from so many people. Zen! Do many young swimmers swim 50s? Undeniably, yes. Do swimmers swim 50s (other than free) between 13-18? No.
I'll accept that in your LMSC they might not have meets with non-free 50s for 13+ but in PVS, there are at least 2 Opens that have, plus several other invitationals that have them also. But to clarify that is for SCY. And even thou, LCM season here is so short and directly contends with several HUGE summer leagues, there are still several LCM meets that offer non-free 50s for 13+.
As far as being able to succeed without working hard, well that only gets you so far in either discipline.
Quote of the thread.
However, I would agree with the OP that it is still easier to pull off in shorter events. I could cite many examples, but most recently I had a friend (in a different age group) win 2 events at Nationals in the spring based off practicing once per week. Of course it takes a special kind of skill to pull that off, but he couldn't do that in a distance event (even though he swam distance in college). Good luck trying to pull that off in a 4 im or 5 free.
I have zero problem with 50's being events at meets, they obviously boost attendance and help space the meet out. Many people don't have the time to train for longer events. Certainly there are sprinters who train just as long and hard as anyone else. Others still might have muscle development suited for sprinting and that's not their fault.
So I understand why people do 50's, but I reserve a special place in my heart for everyone who chooses to train for and compete in 200+, how does that sound? :chug:
Which absolute statements are you talking about?
Please stop fabricating statements and stay with the facts. It takes away from your credibility. Show me where it says I am a "long tenured coach?" I never said "beyond a shadow of a doubt" that no LMSC anywhere offers non-free 50s. Again, if you keep making things up, I'll have to keep pointing out the your reading comprehension errors. Keep it civilized bubba.
Not sure where I left the civilized path in my posts but each to his own. But to address your 'points' such as they are.
Hmm, true you never said 'long tenured' but you did state:
"I've been a swimmer and a coach for over 40 years."
So forgive me if I construed 40 years of coaching, as meeting the concept of 'long tenured', I should have said 'so experienced'
"But then once the clock strikes 11 (years old), all of the 50s go away (less one)"
"Then the cycle progresses to where the shortest races are 100s (other than free of course) for 13-18 yo's"
"Do many young swimmers swim 50s? Undeniably, yes. Do swimmers swim 50s (other than free) between 13-18? No."
What am I missing here? Because all these statements that you made seem to indicate that there are no 50s of non-free for swimmers over the age of 12. Please enlighten me as to where my reading comprehension issues appear?
Well said. You know, before the start of my 1000 in Atlanta, I was so relaxed the timers had to wake me up. There are just so many things to think about during a 50--strategy, pacing, breathing pattern. Now I understand why all of the really smart people swim 50s.
I have to agree also. It's a relief getting ready to swim the 1000 or 1650. It's agonizing for the 50.
Then again watching Fort or Wookie(e) on the blocks for a 1000 would be a sight to behold.
Distance swimmers could make this set going on a 1:00 interval. My splits on my best 500y free were best 50 time + 5 seconds. During that era in my career was common to make that set going on a :45 interval. Better endurance? Maybe; but definitely no speed.
Sometimes people with poor technique prefer to swim longer distances because sub-optimal streamlining increases resistance more than increased power can overcome.
Typically when we get new members on our club they will sign up for 50's and the rare 100. There is a big difference between being able to swim a 200 and being able to race a 200.
Even experienced and skilled masters have life phases where you aren't able to give swimming the priority you would like. Working overtime/travel, relationship+family responsibilities, health setbacks, pool availability.
The nice thing about USMS is that you do not have to be an elite swimmer at the top of your game to enjoy participating.
Others still might have muscle development suited for sprinting and that's not their fault.
Glad it's not our "fault." 50s are more than meet spacers or non-problems. Sprinting is not a lesser talent. It's a flat out talent.
And Chris is right. One mental flaw and your event/meet can be tanked. Happened to me at Nationals in my best event.
It's not like I didn't swim a zillion 200 flys and 400 IMs as a kid. I'm relieved to be able to focus on 50s & 100s as a master. I'd like 75s too.
