50s are not real swimming races

don't feed the trolls... but you know the only response to the thread topic is "Up Yours"

Whoa. My favorite races are 100 free and 100 fly, followed closely by 50 free. I was merely pointing out that there is a cycle. Little kids do 50 back, fly and *** at 10 years old because they can still have a certain amount of success swimming 50s, even with bad strokes. And with success comes some self esteem. Then the cycle progresses to where the shortest races are 100s (other than free of course) for 13-18 yo's - at which point stroke technique and ability to focus for a little longer begins to be more important to success. Then the cycle returns to the starting point later when many swimmers in their 40s and 50s return to their roots and enter predominately the 50 free, or 50s stroke. No doubt. 50s are fun to race. And they make people feel good about themselves because they can swim fast for those short races. ...but as Ande says "it's not how fast you swim, it's how fast you slow down." There is nothing wrong with swimming races that make you feel good about yourself at 50 just as there was nothing wrong about kids swimming 50 fly when they are 10 and feeling good about it.

If I am out of shape I can fake a decent 100. But not a decent 50. For elite level swimmers the overlap between the 100 and 200 is greater than the overlap between the 50 and 100.

I think it was Ande that said "it's not how fast you swim, it's how fast you slow down." I read that a few years ago and keep on coming back to it as I have watched my kids grow in their USA Swimming careers. When kids are around 8-10, many of the races are 50s. Lots of kids can swim relatively fast 50s compared to other kids even when their stroke technique is truly awful. But then once the clock strikes 11 (years old), all of the 50s go away (less one) - and magically many of the kids with bad technique who seemed fast start losing to kids in the 100s and 200s with superior strokes. My question is at what age are we masters swimmers when we start thinking 50 backstroke, 50 butterfly and 50 breaststroke are OK to race again? It is not OK. It brings our sport down to a level where people who train only 100s or less and focus on 25s are taking over our pools. No more I say!!! I think USMS rules should only allow these races for people in their 70s and older. Who is with me?!!! :worms: :bolt: I'm with you....why not swim something where you have a chance to get wet and enjoy the pool!

... Too bad they don't have a 150 or a 300 like they do (sometimes) in college swimming. That'd be a neat distance. IMO this is a really good idea. There is another thread about how to increase participation in Masters swimming. Offering new and interesting distances/events at meets might increase participation in meets anyway. I know of a couple of meets that have SCY 25s. Not being a sprinter, it is unlikely that I would enter one, but lots of people seem to like them and they are very fun to watch. How about the 75 SCY butterfly, or a 150 IM where you do any three strokes, or the 300 back, or 25 SDK, or 800 IM...? There are lots of non-standard events that I think would draw interest.

I got 2 things out of the initial post: 50's of strokes are not worthwhile events because they are no longer offered to age groupers once you turn 11 (really 13), and that some kids can do well in 50's with poor technique. Paul addressed the second point well, but I think many may get the message that 50's are not "true" events as in US swimming, once you turn 13, you don't swim those. I think US swimming drops them as they are not contested in the olympics. But don't other countries continue to swim those events in ages 13 and beyond? (and 100 IM?) I think the solution is to add them for the age groupers/college swimmers. This would decrease the negative perception that some have of these events, and maybe the US would compete better in these events at worlds/ world cup.

And one suggestion: I was recently in a track pentathlon that involved EVERYONE running 3000, 800, 200, 1500, and 400. So distance people and sprinters mixed it up, some excelling at the longer races, others the shorter distances. Everything was age graded, and person the highest overall age grade percent over five events won. How cool would it be if there were something similar in swimming! Wouldn't have to be five events... maybe 3-4, maybe more... They could range from, say, the 50 to the 800. It would give everyone a chance to appreciate the challenge offered by others' distances. (And everyone would be in equal need of pain relievers, lol!). What this also offers is the chance to discover abilities at events one hadn't thought were "strong" ones. Just a thought. The Kedron pool in Peachtree City, Georgia, hosts a USMS meet every September that is a Pentathlon. You have the choice of doing one of the following: 1. 50 yd. race of each stroke, as well as the 100IM 2. 100 yd. race of each stroke, as well as the 200IM 3. The Iron Man: 200 yd race of each stroke, as well as the 400IM. (And, yes, it's all in one day! :afraid:) As a breaststroker who would like to eventually compete in fly (and possibly IM if I can ever get my backstroke speed faster than my breaststroke speed), this is a great meet for me to try! But, there is no way I would enter it if I didn't have the option of doing just the 50's and 100IM.

I got 2 things out of the initial post: 50's of strokes are not worthwhile events because they are no longer offered to age groupers once you turn 11 (really 13), and that some kids can do well in 50's with poor technique. Paul addressed the second point well, but I think many may get the message that 50's are not "true" events as in US swimming, once you turn 13, you don't swim those. I think US swimming drops them as they are not contested in the olympics. But don't other countries continue to swim those events in ages 13 and beyond? (and 100 IM?) I think the solution is to add them for the age groupers/college swimmers. This would decrease the negative perception that some have of these events, and maybe the US would compete better in these events at worlds/ world cup. I've seen USA meets where the older kids swim the stroke 50s, including at Junior Nationals. I think they should offer 50s more frequently. It would provide an opportunity for sprinters who don't want to train 10x a week in the pool. Perhaps it would help reduce the burnout/drop out rate as well.

Many people who race 50s in masters meets swim their workouts with the 50 races in mind. Got it. I've been a swimmer and a coach for over 40 years. Even last weekend I was at an invitational. A boy on my kids' team who hasn't been to a workout in months swam a zone time in a 50. The first thing he said to the coach was, "See!? I don't have to practice to swim fast!" Guaranteed that he couldn't do the same in the 400IM without going to practice. It isn't really helpful to compare competitive age-group and masters training. Kids are being developed and figuring out which type of athlete they are early on. Masters swim for all kinds of reasons - hundreds of reasons. Whatever it is, I hope we have an event for them to use as a goal to make it fun and worthwhile to make it to workout.

They swim 50s in college.They swim 50s at the FINA World Championships. USMS Fan,if you are a coach you should know that the debate between sprinters and distance swimmers is passionate.Don't hit the hornets nest and then wonder that you got stung.