Conventional and EVF can be one in the same unless a conventional swimming stroke means purposely dropping your elbow. The pulling pattern should never be straight back because the longer and the harder the hand moves backward the greater reduction in drag force (negative drag coefficient). The hand must move (scull slightly) into less turbulent water so peak drag force or pulling power can be maintained. As strong swimmers begin to improve their EVF, sprinters will begin to evolve into more right angled looking strokes like Rebecca Addlington's and less like Alain Bernard's. With everything being equal, a stroke like Bernards, in my opinion, can become faster by getting his forearm/hand vertical earlier. With that being said, Bernard may have anatomical factors (weak shoulder cuff, flexibility issues, EVF strength conversion habit issues) that could prevent that EVF alteration (his coach knows best). My contention is that any swimmer who can, without compromising anatomical health, improve the length of time they can keep their hand/forearm in the vertical position and improve how early they can get their hand / forearm in a vertical position, will drop time. I think conventional (as long as it doesn’t mean purposely dropping your elbow) and EVF are the same and physical limitations and training habits create the variances from swimmer to swimmer. The fastest swimmers in the world may have different looking strokes but the winners keep their hands/forearm in the vertical position earlier and in a vertical position that produces the most power the longest. Getting your hand / forearm in a power position early and keeping it their longer, isn’t all about pulling strength, it’s more importantly about the ability to resist dropping one’s elbow. I started doing an exercise where swimmers kick 50 yards with fins, holding their arms in front of them (breathe to the side or in the front), holding an EVF position. Try it and it will show you the ability to “set-up” your stroke early (conventional or not) is more difficult than you can imagine. The pressure of simply swimming forward requires strong shoulder-cuff stabilizing muscles ( supraspinatus, infraspinatus, teres minor, and subscapularis) and the above exercise will show you how weak or strong yours are. I think it’s safe to say, more often than not, swimmers don’t have the necessary shoulder cuff strength that allows them to properly “set-up” their stroke. And, let’s think about it, if you can’t keep your arm in a “set-up” position (conventional or not) for 50 yards, what are the chances of ever developing a better “set-up position until you strengthen and train to improve the muscles responsible for that position. I think isometrics and the use of surgical tubing offers the most effective way to improve shoulder-cuff strength. Email me at tomtomp@netzero.com if you’re interested in more information. Good luck, Coach T.
Former Member
No one has yet identified with certainty the way swimmers propel the body through the water. All we have are theories, and they have varied considerably through the years. Ernest W. Maglischo, 2003.
exactly
I don't buy that. What kind of explaination do you need. The body of a swimmer is the boat and the hands and feet are the engine. I think we can talk about the nuances of propulsion but in the sport of swimming the body is moved forward by using drag and lift forces created by the hands and feet.
Sure it can get complicated and when trying to sort out the best way an individual can get faster, it is scientific (just look at this related information
en.wikipedia.org/.../Drag_(physics). There are specific things that make swimmers faster than others and we know what they are and we should all agree on certain things. The most important thing is how early a swimmer can set-up their stroke to create an effective drag force (paddling backward) and how long they can keep effective drag forces in that efficient propulsive position. We should all agree that reduction of drag or improving streamlining, as it relates to the body or vessel as it moves forward, is important to speed. We should all agree that improving flexibility and strength, as it relates to the maximum effective potential a swimmer can exert without slipping (reducing maximum drag force the hand can create) is important. We should all agree that physical differences within the discriptions of a Ectomorph, Mesomorph and Endomorph can be limiting or delimiting factors in relationship to swimming speed. We should all agree that no matter what physical limitations a swimmer might have, improving should be a realistic goal that all swimmers can share.
We should all agree that the infinite physical differences from swimmer to swimmer will require variences of every technical swimming model a person may present. Good luck, Coach T.
“To believe with certainty we must begin with doubting.”
King Stanislaus of Poland
“If you resist reading what you disagree with, how will you ever acquire deeper insights into what you believe? The things most worth reading are precisely those that challenge our convictions.”
exactly
Thanks for posting the video, Lindsay. I've never seen this before, but it looks like a great training tool. Has anybody out there used it? Your feedback??
Not to butt in...
Is that the intent of these figure-eight looking wrist braces that the coach had my daughter using? I think it was to keep her from slapping the water and hand-braking (reaching out so far forward that her fingertips would tend to point upward). Also, I noticed when I'm gassed, my hands don't always push back on my follow through. I find myself letting them come in toward my thigh and I know I'm losing some extra push by doing so. I'm not overly concerned because I'm a breaststroker, but I was thinking of getting these devices to train my hand/forearm discipling.
Whether swimming, paddling and rowing, the water will always be the fulcrum if we want our strokes to be effective in propelling us through the water. Considerable amount of money and time has been invested designing and developing blades for racing rowing shells, kayaks and canoes for exploiting that great wall of water as a fulcrum, including that new figure 8 band for swimming. The objective being to extend the duration of holding water, which only a 2nd class lever does well, so our stroke will be more efficient, effective and go faster.
Regarding the bar, I can tie a sack of potatoes to it, in the middle and lift it by raising the unattached end. And most certainly vault myself into the wall with the bar attached to it just above the floor to a height of 18 inches. If I were younger, I probably could do 3 ft.? Perhaps, if we level the playing surface, and I use a long skateboard and a long paddle like pole, I can propel myself all around town like those big kids do on the promenade.
Regarding the oarlocks, yes, it is a popular and common misconception to think of them as the fulcrum, which is understandable, since we all grew up playing on seesaws. However, they are not, for they represent the load or boat. And now you know why FISA calls "oars as simple levers of the second order."
I don't buy that. What kind of explaination do you need. The body of a swimmer is the boat and the hands and feet are the engine. Tom, I am not a scientist, and I did not spend 25 years of my life developing on one subject.
I don't even know what Dr.Maglischo would consider as a *certainty* on this topic, and I leave it up to him to apply scientific rigor to the outcome whatever it is and whenever it comes.
And if you're comfortable with your boat having hands and feet as engines, then fine! You don't absolutely need me in that boat do you?
I guess if you define your frame of reference to be the end of the paddle then the end of the paddle will by definition stay still and you can think about the paddle as a 2nd class lever. Perhaps it is even helpful when coaching people with a limited knowledge of physics.
From an engineering/physics point of view it's a bit of a stretch as the end of the paddle will be moving with respect to both the earth and the boat, and any forward momentum gained by the boat is always exactly equal to the backward momentum of the water the blade was pushing. The rower's or swimmer's objective is to minimize slip by maximizing the amount of water that they are pushing, resulting in a larger mass of water moving at lesser velocity (less slip).
www.atm.ox.ac.uk/.../basics.html
Please note that I still utterly reject the notion of "surprising the water" although I would not be shocked if that too had some appeal to some coaches.
Whether swimming, paddling and rowing, the water will always be the fulcrum if we want our strokes to be effective in propelling us through the water. Considerable amount of money and time has been invested designing and developing blades for racing rowing shells, kayaks and canoes for exploiting that great wall of water as a fulcrum, including that new figure 8 band for swimming. The objective being to extend the duration of holding water, which only a 2nd class lever does well, so our stroke will be more efficient, effective and go faster.
Regarding the bar, I can tie a sack of potatoes to it, in the middle and lift it by raising the unattached end. And most certainly vault myself into the wall with the bar attached to it just above the floor to a height of 18 inches. If I were younger, I probably could do 3 ft.? Perhaps, if we level the playing surface, and I use a long skateboard and a long paddle like pole, I can propel myself all around town like those big kids do on the promenade.
Regarding the oarlocks, yes, it is a popular and common misconception to think of them as the fulcrum, which is understandable, since we all grew up playing on seesaws. However, they are not, for they represent the load or boat. And now you know why FISA calls "oars as simple levers of the second order."
I do not see the point. As Lindsay implied, there is a force balance between the thrust generated by the arms and legs and the drag of the body (and parts of the arms) through the water. When the two are equal, that's when you've reached your maximum speed for that amount of effort.
How does defining your arms as simple levers help you swim faster, even from a conceptual point of view? Wouldn't it be more helpful to think about proper positioning of your arms for both maximum efficiency and greatest mechanical leverage? Just curious.
