Myth #4: The reason you keep the elbows high on the underwater pull is to increase power.
I hear this often from both coaches and swimmers. When one looks at the underwater shots of the world's fastest swimmers, sprint or distance, one finds the recurring position of high underwater elbow, also called Early Vertical Forearm (EVF). The elbows are not just high, they are unusually high...almost in a contorted position with extreme extension (negative angle) of the shoulder joint, particularly when coupled with the body rotation in the opposite direction. it begs the question, can one really be stronger in this almost contorted position? I believe the answer is no. To test this, one can go in the gym and using the Free Motion pulleys, that many gyms now have, pull as much weight down with your arm relatively straight forward, then try it with your arm at the side, shoulder extended and elbow up. You will not be able to pull as much weight in that position. With the shoulder fully extended (negative angle), it is simply not in a good mechanical position of strength.
So if this weird high elbow position is not about power, what is it about? Drag. By changing the position of the arm as it moves through the pull cycle, one can reduce the drag coefficient significantly...not eliminate it. To prove this, kick with fins all out for 25 yards extending one arm above the head and the other straight down toward the bottom of the pool. You will soon learn how significant the drag of your protruding arm becomes when it is at right angles to your long axis. In fact, you will have to work to keep the arm in the position and with any speed at all, it will shake in the water like a palm tree in a hurricane in the Keys. Now try the same drill, but instead of putting your arm straight down, let it protrude straight out to the side but bend the arm 90 degrees at the elbow, as if you were swimming with a high elbow. You will feel considerably less drag in this position. Same arm...different position...a lot less drag.
Now I realize that this is not quite the same as while swimming, when only the upper part of the arm is moving forward throughout nearly the entire underwater part of the pull cycle (In order to cause frontal resistive drag, the object must be moving forward). However, the upper arm is also the largest part of the arm and changing it's orientation in the water also reduces the drag coefficient. Achieving an EVF is simply maintaining the upper arm in a position closest to the line of motion and thus creates the least frontal drag.
The good news is that most coaches are telling you the same thing, pull with your elbows high underwater. Now you know the real reason.
Gary Sr
Former Member
Power is workXdistance/time(if I remember correctly).Since the lever arm is longer the hand moves farther faster.This is really an inelegant statement and since we are applying force to a fluid all simple equations are inadequate.It seems that the deep elbow causes faster peak forward velocities at points in the stroke,but with the peak being of less duration/stroke than with what I think of as EVF.
The part that has me confused is that the longer the lever the larger the force at the shoulder has to be to generate the same force at the hand. If you hold force at the shoulder constant then the amount of propulsive force drops as the lever gets longer.
The distance parallel to the direction of travel from the front of the stroke to the back is the same, at two arm lengths, even though the straight arm pull travels a longer circular path the component perpendicular to the direction of travel doesn't provide forward propulsion.
It seems to me that any advantage in a longer lever has to come from different timing. Either that or the greater downward force in the front quadrant lifts the body enough to reduce drag, and I'm dubious about that.
Another explanation might be that for some reason the straight arm swimmer is able to generate higher forces at the shoulder than the EVF swimmer. I'm not sure why that would be but it seems plausible.
My intuition still tells me that the straight arm swimmer is benefiting from a difference in timing, possibly spending less time in the non propulsive front quadrant. Isn't it generally the case that swimmers with a non-EVF pull have a higher stroke rate?
i did not read every single reply but i am hoping that someone mentioned that EVF means your hand is pulling straight back towards the feet as opposed to down/back with a straight arm
What exactly is a conventional stroke vs. EVF or a non-conventional?
That is a very good question. I can only answer for me at this time.
For me, I feel I am swimming full blown EVF when:
1. I am achieving the steepest vertical forearm position possible as early into the pulling path as possible
2. That includes delaying the catch a tiny bit to achieve this flatter body position. The clip you once referred to a few months back is explaining this principle (which was new to me) very well
as opposed to
1. going deeper and earlier on my catch which occurs with less vertical forearm position
2. Using the downward body rotation to strengthen the catch **
** this is a key difference here for me. Under conventional free style technique, I roll down (downward body rotation) on my catch. At higher speed, I even lock the arm, similar to what Rtodd described some place else in the forum. Whereas with EVF, I kind of loose it. Catch is being slightly delayed, the arm remains shallow, downward body rotation is occurring with the arm remaining in the front quadrant. So everything is kind of late timing wise compared to my more conventional way of swimming the Free.
So far, it is causing me a little issue in passing the elbow underneath the body to prepare for push phase. Working on it though...
Here's something to consider:
Practice both the EVF and more traditional deep pool stroke.
Then, when you race a distance where you have a decent chance of dying, be prepared to switch stroke styles as needed to recruit fresh muscles.
A veterinarian friend whose father was a vet at Churchill Downs told me that when a race horse begins to tie up at the end of the race, smart jockeys are able to get the thoroughbred to shift gaits slightly and finish strong.
He (my friend) watched me die a horrible death in the final 10 meters of a 100 meter freestyle once and said it was too bad I had no other gait I could switch to.
In practice lately, when my arms get super tight during difficult sets, I have found that switching to EVF gives me a little extra reserve capacity.
Who knows?
Maybe the best stroke is neither one nor the other, but the possibility that we can switch back and forth as exhaustion hits. Sort of like rotating crops to avoid a crop failure...
I will try this at Zones and see if it helps.
The part that has me confused is that the longer the lever the larger the force at the shoulder has to be to generate the same force at the hand. If you hold force at the shoulder constant then the amount of propulsive force drops as the lever gets longer.
The distance parallel to the direction of travel from the front of the stroke to the back is the same, at two arm lengths, even though the straight arm pull travels a longer circular path the component perpendicular to the direction of travel doesn't provide forward propulsion.
It seems to me that any advantage in a longer lever has to come from different timing. Either that or the greater downward force in the front quadrant lifts the body enough to reduce drag, and I'm dubious about that.
Another explanation might be that for some reason the straight arm swimmer is able to generate higher forces at the shoulder than the EVF swimmer. I'm not sure why that would be but it seems plausible.
My intuition still tells me that the straight arm swimmer is benefiting from a difference in timing, possibly spending less time in the non propulsive front quadrant. Isn't it generally the case that swimmers with a non-EVF pull have a higher stroke rate?
I think you are overlooking the most important point. The reason power is greater in the deep drop elbow is that the shoulder is in the positive angle (flexion) while to get into extreme EVF, when the recovering arm is extended, requires that both shoulders are extended. Once the shoulder is extended (negative angle) it loses power mechanically. I believe one can get stronger in the EVF position with work, but it is not the position of naturally greatest strength of the arm/shoulder/ back.
Gary
i def think it increases DPS and i def think it facilitates healthier shoulders as it puts the rotator cuff muscles in a mechanically advantegous position
i did not read every single reply but i am hoping that someone mentioned that EVF means your hand is pulling straight back towards the feet as opposed to down/back with a straight arm I hope so cause it's the biggest benefit that I see. Making the Effective Pulling Range even more 'effective'
its the same as pushing a car up a slight slope (down and back stroke) with a powerful engine as opposed to pushing the same car on a flat plane (pretty much straight back towards the feet) with a slightly less powerful engine.... the latter wins
applied to our bodies it means we are using less energy to go the same distance
i tried doing EVF the whole time at practice and i can tell you that....
1. it increases straight horizontal pulling distance
2. it keeps your shoulders wide... keeping your posture better and your entire body in a better position
3. Its Def better for your shoulders to swim this way
edit:
two other good reasons:
1. stand up and stick your arm straight out in front of you... imagine this is the arm that is midway through the pull.... now the other arm should be approximately midway through the recovery... put this arm in the position it should be in (high elbow), feels weird... your body feels most natural when the other arm is straight out (straight arm recovery) and this would put your body practically vertical with respect to the surface of the water
now try it with your elbow at 90 degrees and your shoulder at neutral... see what im getting at?
2. Much more efficient... a lot of people are talking about speed is #strokes x DPS... and efficiency does not factor into this but is very important
