The swim smooth guys have a new site at www.swimtypes.com that attempts to classify swimmers into six types. I found it interesting to try, and to see how the classification changed when I played around with the input values.
One of the things I found interesting was that they said their data show that people are somewhat polarized between sub 1:25/100m continuous pace for "smooth"/ideal swimmers and plus 1:25/100m "overgliders" and that fitness doesn't seem to be a big factor in dividing people across that time. Most people with good technique will be under 1:25 pace and very few swimmers with overglider technique problems will be able to get under 1:25. They use your 400m time as the input so if your time is under 5:40 you will be classified as smooth, much over that and you'll be classified as an overglider or swinger.
In any case I would be interested in seeing how other people classify and whether you agree with the classification.
In other words, look at the position of his hand in relation to the rest of the arm -- it seems a bit splayed outward to me.
I agree. This is something he should work on. The hand should ideally be in line with the forearm, not canted to the side.
So you've been working hard. Did you notice any improvement of any sort (distance per stroke, improved speed, less pain etc)?
Well, I can't interfere with this process you're currently committed to. Would be highly counter productive. In this particular case, sculling efficiency (sculling drills) should govern what you do with your hands/arms during the catch phase. Impact in changing this or that should mainly translate into a change in distance per stroke.
Unless you represent an extreme case of hand/arm misalignment, I see it as something fairly minor.
Good questions. The truth is, I don't know the answers. I was told I should fix my hand alignment, and so I've been trying to. :doh:
Good questions. The truth is, I don't know the answers. I was told I should fix my hand alignment, and so I've been trying to. :doh:
Fairly typical and it's fine. It's just not the way I work, hence my apparent reserve in stating it's right or wrong. But I am alone in my camp, at least on this discussion forum.
The usual little questionnaire I ask myself while working with athletes like the one shown on the clip (again, 1:10 per 100m open water therefore no turns over 3.8k) looks as follow:
1. The technical element that I see (hand pitched slightly off), does it create any adverse effect?
2. If so how can it be seen, or only felt?
3. Would the swimmer be faster if he was correcting this?
4. Once I issue the feedback, how can we monitor the improvement?
5. Do we have more important cats to beat?
I track all that in a technical log book, where I write any feed back given to anyone. Coaching them becomes a matter of reopening the book and see how things progress. Otherwise, I end up giving feedback on top of unresolved feedback. Then everything gets confused and it becomes more difficult to see if we progress or not. Just my way of working... my :2cents:
But you raised a valid point. You have a strong sense of observation. For you it may be important to just stick to theory books and do what your coach is instructing you to do. One thing is that the hand is the brain of the arm. If your coach is expecting you for instance to flex the wrist, pointing fingers down upon hand entry, he may then see this outward sweep as something conflicting with this principle. I just couldn't clearly see this in the clip.
Guess I'm the party pooper. The whole site seemed a bit silly and simplistic to me.
Isn't that sort of the point, though? The simplistic part, not the silly part. :)
Obviously a web site can't diagnose stroke problems for every swimmer so they've attempted to lump swimmers into several categories. Once you've determine what type of a swimmer you are the site at least helps you focus on what stroke faults you may have and ways to correct those faults.
He's taking a catch well outside the mid line with his left arm, and it's probably fine. As long as he swims straight (and for that, you can trust a triathlete that holds 1:10 per 100 over 3.8k open water as an introduction to a 8:30 hours long race).
That's one thing with swingers. Gotta be little more open minded and let the guys swim. As long as they don't get injured, and swim straight.
For what it's worth, I think that it's easier to achieve EVF when you go little wider, and when you let a little bit of body roll to occur prior taking the high elbow catch. Since he is a right side breather, we could assume that he has little less body roll on left side. Maybe he, like a lot of top10 in the world, has suffered injuries. This freedom he is taking with this left arm may in fact be a very good compromise between achieving enough EVF and not end up pinching his left shoulder articulations. Pure speculation of course.
Here. A link to a nice youtube clip. Originally posted by Coach T (I believe), it's one of the best resources I've seen on the topic, it explains this principle very well. www.youtube.com/watch
I see what you're saying. But I didn't mean the position of his arm or elbow -- I literally meant the position of his hand. In other words, look at the position of his hand in relation to the rest of the arm -- it seems a bit splayed outward to me. In the second video you posted, the hands aren't in that position -- they are straight (in line with the body the swimmer, not with the tips of the fingers pointed away from the body). Again, I am just trying to figure this out for myself, because I've been working hard to get my own hands straight, but if I don't need to do that, I won't!
Again, I am just trying to figure this out for myself, because I've been working hard to get my own hands straight, but if I don't need to do that, I won't! So you've been working hard. Did you notice any improvement of any sort (distance per stroke, improved speed, less pain etc)?
Well, I can't interfere with this process you're currently committed to. Would be highly counter productive. In this particular case, sculling efficiency (sculling drills) should govern what you do with your hands/arms during the catch phase. Impact in changing this or that should mainly translate into a change in distance per stroke.
Unless you represent an extreme case of hand/arm misalignment, I see it as something fairly minor.
Fairly typical and it's fine. It's just not the way I work, hence my apparent reserve in stating it's right or wrong. But I am alone in my camp, at least on this discussion forum.
I definitely see the point you're making. Not every little swimming "flaw" is worth fixing, and if you're going to take the trouble to try to fix something, then you ought to make sure that it actually improves something (faster, less pain, etc).
