The swim smooth guys have a new site at www.swimtypes.com that attempts to classify swimmers into six types. I found it interesting to try, and to see how the classification changed when I played around with the input values.
One of the things I found interesting was that they said their data show that people are somewhat polarized between sub 1:25/100m continuous pace for "smooth"/ideal swimmers and plus 1:25/100m "overgliders" and that fitness doesn't seem to be a big factor in dividing people across that time. Most people with good technique will be under 1:25 pace and very few swimmers with overglider technique problems will be able to get under 1:25. They use your 400m time as the input so if your time is under 5:40 you will be classified as smooth, much over that and you'll be classified as an overglider or swinger.
In any case I would be interested in seeing how other people classify and whether you agree with the classification.
Former Member
If you are already swimming relatively fast (under 1:10 for SCY), I wouldn't worry much how that web site classifies you. It is really directed at triathletes who are swimming 1:30 and higher. Advice for that group may not be applicable to faster swimmers.
I like swimsmooth and admire the way they are trying to adapt strokes to body types. But they really aren't geared to fast swimmers.
For the record, I'm an overglider, and that is probably accurate, as I am in good shape but can't break 1:20 for 100 yards. As others have noted, that is practically their definition of an overglider.
Here's a swinger here....
www.youtube.com/watch
Is it just me, or is his underwater hand position a bit off? I'm not trying to be critical -- I genuinely would like to know what people think, because recently someone has corrected my hand position to be straighter than what I see in this video.
I don't think it looks bad at all. You keep your head down, you don't cross over with your arms, you keep your hand below your shoulders on the recovery and you've got pretty good rotation. I'm not sure I'd classify you as a swinger at all.
Well, thank you. I've worked on it over the years. I used to hit my teammates in the other lanes because I swung so wide. I've gotten better at least.
Just realized I haven't swam an entire 400M without stopping since last winter, so I have no idea what my time would be. I don't have any plans to see what it is either, maybe 6 - 7 minutes lol.
Anyhow, I classify myself as a short-distance freestyle and beginner fly swimmer:agree:.
Do ape's even swim?
Your stroke looks good.
Here's a swinger here....
www.youtube.com/watch
Note, his first length was just very slow warm up stuff. His long distance race pace (3.8k specialist) starts by length #2. As you can see, swingers can swim real well and smooth, they just do it using a stroke rate that's typically fairly high. At least, so is my understanding.
Here's some (a limited sample here) of the theories behind this new swim types approach. Short article in English that discusses your Ape Index
www.feelforthewater.com/.../whats-your-ape-index.html
Here's Alejandro Martinez' version which is probably more scientific. In spanish though.
www.amtriathlon.com/.../brazadasporlargo-apeindex.html
That's interesting. I have an Ape index of about -1. But I think I have a relatively short stroke. Something else to think about. I loves Scott's kick. That's amazing.
Well, thank you. I've worked on it over the years. I used to hit my teammates in the other lanes because I swung so wide. I've gotten better at least. Your stroke looks good.
Here's a swinger here....
www.youtube.com/watch
Note, his first length was just very slow warm up stuff. His long distance race pace (3.8k specialist) starts by length #2. As you can see, swingers can swim real well and smooth, they just do it using a stroke rate that's typically fairly high. At least, so is my understanding.
Here's some (a limited sample here) of the theories behind this new swim types approach. Short article in English that discusses your Ape Index
www.feelforthewater.com/.../whats-your-ape-index.html
Here's Alejandro Martinez' version which is probably more scientific. In spanish though.
www.amtriathlon.com/.../brazadasporlargo-apeindex.html
Is it just me, or is his underwater hand position a bit off? I'm not trying to be critical -- I genuinely would like to know what people think, because recently someone has corrected my hand position to be straighter than what I see in this video. He's taking a catch well outside the mid line with his left arm, and it's probably fine. As long as he swims straight (and for that, you can trust a triathlete that holds 1:10 per 100 over 3.8k open water as an introduction to a 8:30 hours long race).
That's one thing with swingers. Gotta be little more open minded and let the guys swim. As long as they don't get injured, and swim straight.
For what it's worth, I think that it's easier to achieve EVF when you go little wider, and when you let a little bit of body roll to occur prior taking the high elbow catch. Since he is a right side breather, we could assume that he has little less body roll on left side. Maybe he, like a lot of top10 in the world, has suffered injuries. This freedom he is taking with this left arm may in fact be a very good compromise between achieving enough EVF and not end up pinching his left shoulder articulations. Pure speculation of course.
Here. A link to a nice youtube clip. Originally posted by Coach T (I believe), it's one of the best resources I've seen on the topic, it explains this principle very well. www.youtube.com/watch
That's interesting. I have an Ape index of about -1. But I think I have a relatively short stroke. Something else to think about. I loves Scott's kick. That's amazing.
Scott defies a lot of commonly accepted implicit principles. Very high rate (>80rpm) with a strong kick as a first leg of an Ironman Triathlon.
He ignored these good old cliches and managed to design a stroke technique that best fits his body type and personality. Being a swinger isn't a bad thing at all. This year I started coaching a natural swinger that doesn't swing. Short guy with little sensations for the water that unfortunately spent several years trying to tune himself as a glider. The result was awful.
He's a swinger therefore his best bet is to learn how to swing *correctly/efficiently*, not trying to become someone he can't possibly be. That's the message behind Swim Smooth's Swim Type theory. Not everyone can or even should try to swim like Grant Hackett or A.Popov. Studies on the optimal "Stroke Rate/Distance per Stroke" given body types has been a big thing throughout the development, which spanned over several years.
Worth noting that this Ape Index thing seems to have been first developed by and for climbers. Swimming isn't that different from climbing, especially the Free Style.
