First, thanks for the chat. It's appreciated.
In my mind, saying that college swimmers have some residual "base" after taking time off is applying too much real-world significance to a model parameter. We're moving to philosophical matters here.
I think it is important not to try and contain real-word significance within the boundaries of any of these models. The reason for this is that their authors (Banister, Coggan, Skiba) are the first to acknowledge that their models suffer from sever limitation in their ability to represent the complexity of this real world.
In other words, the fact that a model fails to acknowledge what we could call long term residual base training effect doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Bare with me until my next answer :)
This is why Lance can beat you after a year off his bike Few years ago, a famous researcher by the name of Edward Coyle made a comprehensive study on Lance Armstrong. The findings were manifolds. Some of these findings reinforced the fact that contrary to swimming, cycling technique contributes for very little to Cycling Economy in general. Economy for our friends cyclists is more conditioned by Internal factors (way your body handles heat regulation etc) than by External ones.
That's because the gesture of pedaling is way to simple to play a big role in the Economy equation.
That's for one. Secondly, the performance modeling applied to cycling nowadays take power as their main input. Power, not velocity. So even if Lance's incredible forward speed could be explained for example by a greater Cda, that doesn't explain the tremendous level of power he can sustain.
So for me, my former boss (who was at the time and still is a successful Olympic coach) was, in my opinion, dead right: Prolonged hard training regiments leave a training footprint that never really goes away. And the data to support this statement can probably be found in studies of this kind: www.springerlink.com/.../
Although I could not read it (not available for free). These studies cost a lot of money. Their number is probably very limited.
- - -
Ref: Pedaling technique. An issue yes or not? www.cyclingforums.com/.../233514-pealling-push-up-push-down.html
Note: this thread has around 2500 replies. No way you can read all of it. Basically most experts that contributed to this well known thread think that the best pedaling technique doesn't play a big role in the power one can apply on the pedals.
Ref: Study on Lance Armstrong jap.physiology.org/.../1630
Note: Full study pdf download link on the right hand side of the page
Ref: Quote by Andrew Coggan, father of the very first power based impulse-response model, namely: TSS
"A greater limitation to the entire concept, though, is that the
basic premise – i.e., that you can adequately describe the training load
and the stress it imposes on an individual based on just one number
(TSS), completely ignoring how that “score” is achieved and other
factors (e.g., diet, rest) – is, on its face, ridiculous...Nonetheless, I believe
that TSS (and IF) should prove useful to coaches and athletes for
evaluating/managing training." www.cyclingforums.com/.../470381-tss-additive.html
First, thanks for the chat. It's appreciated.
In my mind, saying that college swimmers have some residual "base" after taking time off is applying too much real-world significance to a model parameter. We're moving to philosophical matters here.
I think it is important not to try and contain real-word significance within the boundaries of any of these models. The reason for this is that their authors (Banister, Coggan, Skiba) are the first to acknowledge that their models suffer from sever limitation in their ability to represent the complexity of this real world.
In other words, the fact that a model fails to acknowledge what we could call long term residual base training effect doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Bare with me until my next answer :)
This is why Lance can beat you after a year off his bike Few years ago, a famous researcher by the name of Edward Coyle made a comprehensive study on Lance Armstrong. The findings were manifolds. Some of these findings reinforced the fact that contrary to swimming, cycling technique contributes for very little to Cycling Economy in general. Economy for our friends cyclists is more conditioned by Internal factors (way your body handles heat regulation etc) than by External ones.
That's because the gesture of pedaling is way to simple to play a big role in the Economy equation.
That's for one. Secondly, the performance modeling applied to cycling nowadays take power as their main input. Power, not velocity. So even if Lance's incredible forward speed could be explained for example by a greater Cda, that doesn't explain the tremendous level of power he can sustain.
So for me, my former boss (who was at the time and still is a successful Olympic coach) was, in my opinion, dead right: Prolonged hard training regiments leave a training footprint that never really goes away. And the data to support this statement can probably be found in studies of this kind: www.springerlink.com/.../
Although I could not read it (not available for free). These studies cost a lot of money. Their number is probably very limited.
- - -
Ref: Pedaling technique. An issue yes or not? www.cyclingforums.com/.../233514-pealling-push-up-push-down.html
Note: this thread has around 2500 replies. No way you can read all of it. Basically most experts that contributed to this well known thread think that the best pedaling technique doesn't play a big role in the power one can apply on the pedals.
Ref: Study on Lance Armstrong jap.physiology.org/.../1630
Note: Full study pdf download link on the right hand side of the page
Ref: Quote by Andrew Coggan, father of the very first power based impulse-response model, namely: TSS
"A greater limitation to the entire concept, though, is that the
basic premise – i.e., that you can adequately describe the training load
and the stress it imposes on an individual based on just one number
(TSS), completely ignoring how that “score” is achieved and other
factors (e.g., diet, rest) – is, on its face, ridiculous...Nonetheless, I believe
that TSS (and IF) should prove useful to coaches and athletes for
evaluating/managing training." www.cyclingforums.com/.../470381-tss-additive.html
