Ok. I admit I have my issues. Shoulders are not being great. I have Bankart tear and slap tear and frayed superpinatus (sp) and bony erosion somewhere, but due to my age (56) and in my mind gender (female), have been told both by PT and orthopedic surgeon that I should do gentle swimming, cut back on the competitive need. Surgery is option, but I was encouraged instead to swim gently, and less distance. I can understand that I would need to begin gently and less distance, which I have been doing since January, but now I am like a race horse ready to bust out of my friggin' mind (paddock, whatever it's called where they stay). The gate?
I really need to swim aggressively, as hard as I can, for many reasons. So I am willing to blow out my shoulder if that's what happens and get the surgery at that point, because I figure I have at least 30 more years of competitive swimming.
I was advised to find other sports or perhaps salsa dancing or perhaps gentle breaststroke.
I am much stronger after four months of much rehab and was able to do full workout with pretty fast intervals (some using fins) on Wednesday. Plan to try again tomorrow.
The point of this posting (always hard for me to get to) is this: for older swimmers who are awesome and so revered in my mind, those who have swum for so many years, and raced, and are now in their 80s, 90s, and still racing, I have a strong feeling that they still are putting their all into their workouts. They may be going slower, but the effort to do their fastest is still there. Which I love.
I will be talking to some of the older swimmers in my region to see what their attitude is toward late-life training.
Swimming is my life! Yes, all eggs in one basket. But until that basket falls, why cut back? Am I crazy (yes)? But I am going to work hard on figuring out hand entry, continue to strengthen scapular muscles, and see what happens.
I am not going to do old-lady breaststroke. Perhaps I am misperceiving PT instructions, but it certainly did not seem so. She seriously said that I needed to realize I would not always be able to swim and I should find other ways to get swim-related effects. I cried in her office and hated her, I confess to this.
So I am waiting on the surgery because I am stronger, even if there seems to be a lot of stuff ready to bust, but my back is very strong and I swam a 200 meter free in what seemed an easy effort but was close to my sprint time on Wednesday, first full practice since January.
There is definitely something to strengthening the scapular muscles. And there is a new move toward "scapular swimming," whatever that is, and I am going to try to investigate/write about that as well.
If any most esteemed older swimmers want to weigh in on your level of effort at practice, I would love to hear it.
When doctors say "just don't do that anymore" to something a patient is passionate about (OK, unless it's smoking or drinking!) I think they deserve to get punched in the face. What a cop out. Not constructive at all and just lazy doctoring.
I have no doubt you can achieve whatever you want....if you listen to your body. Personally, I don't believe pushing hard toward surgery is the best approach. I'm 59 and average 15,000 yrds a week. When I transitioned to a more EVF stroke earlier this year, I had to take a few days off when my shoulders objected. When I feel strong, I push. When I'm tired, or it hurts, I slow down or stop. I'm looking forward to competition.
My 14 year old grandson has been out a few days nursing a sore shoulder, as well as another on his swim team. We're not alone!
I think there is developing a new opening for elder sports medicine physicians. :cane:
Regards, Georgio
I'll throw in a counterpoint.
I decided to start emphasizing bicycling and relegate swimming to a secondary activity. My thoughts are to swim more at maintenance levels and maintain shoulder health without subjecting it to overuse in middle age. When I go to the pool, I swim hard but it's only a few times a month, not 5 times a week.
This also means I'm less frustrated when the pool is closed, practice canceled as I have another venue for stress relief.
Prior knee trauma/reconstruction means I am very limited in what activities I can do. Walking is not recommended. My orthopedist likes swimming and cycling best. However, I do have a rebuilt shoulder and while it's healthy now, I think it is more prone to wear-and-tear problems.
Most probably cycling will not be a lifetime sport for me. When I can't have fun doing it (when I age up from middle-aged to elderly) I still plan to enjoy swimming the rest of my years.
So I am "saving my shoulders" while I am still young enough to have alternative exercise forms that I enjoy.
This is more of a fitness mindset and probably won't cut it for those of you who are in it to achieve competitive success in the pool.
I agree. I've been seeing Brian Cunningham at Lutheran General in Park Ridge, IL. Not only is he a PT but he's also heavily involved with swimming, so he's able to help me with my stroke as well as provide exercises to help strengthen my rotator cuff.
Skip
I think Gull is absolutely right - address the problem and keep swimming.
I am a 68 year old female and swimming is my life. I do not have chronic shoulder problems, just a spell with bursitis from not doing my rotator cuff excercises.
I believe the solution is to try to find doctors and PTs who will work with you to do what you want. It takes time on your part to educate them to who you are. If they don't get it, move on. (I realize that selecting doctors is dependent on where you live.)
I have asthma and atrial fibrulation but am swimming better than ever, but it has not been easy. At 50 I swam my best Masters times at SC nationals. By July, I swam my worst times due to gastric reflux. I tried medication and then insisted on surgery to correct the problem. (My mother had suffered for years and I was determined not to do the same.)
Then my "asthma like" symptoms became full blown asthma. It took awhile, but now it is almost a non-issue due to medication. I had problems on the last day in Atlanta, but it was partly my fault - I should not have stayed at the pool all day; I know I need to get away from the chemicals, but I didn't. My asthma doctor is a runner and understands that I practice and compete on a high level.
I have had 2 ablations for atrial fib, and for the last few years have been fine. My cardiologist has finally accpeted my lifestyle and listens to me. I am very fortunate. He laughed when I showed him an article about Ralph Davis who is swimming with a heart transplant. I told him that was the type of people I hung around with.
If the surgeon can repair the tear, don't discount surgery. But exhaust all other possibilities first. Keep trying and as others have said: Listen to your body. Don't ignore the pain.
Another thought...don't always attribute something like this to age. Shoulder pains and injuries, as pointed out, aren't always limited to adult athletes. Many age groupers come down with problems from repeated overuse of a quirky form.
Sometimes all it takes is a palm out freestyle recovery and the shoulder can be impinged and tweaked beyond it's normal range of motion. Not sure if that has anything to do with your current situation, but doctors who don't swim or understand the mechanics of swimming can be slightly off base with their comments.
Wouldn't want to be Kirk's doctor. :)
In general, I agree with Kirk in principle, if not necessarily in practice. If I had a doctor or PT person say to me what yours seems to be saying to you, I'd have another doctor or PT the next day.
I've had shoulder surgery and been through a fair amount of PT. I think that finding a good fit with the people treating you is VERY important. And a good fit for me would be someone who understands, "gets," and respects my goals.
For instance, we have a group of orthopedic doctors up here who really understand why people want to compete throughout their lives--because a good number of the doctors compete themselves. From my perspective as a patient, it seems to me that this mindset also results in a change in approach to healing. Their goal is not just to get their patients pain free. It's to get them pain free AND as close to 100% as they can, so that the patient can go back to their activity as soon as possible. In other words, I get the impression that if they had a swimmer patient and they could only alleviate pain and discomfort by making the patient stop swimming, they would view that outcome as a type of failure on their part.
In fact, when I had my shoulder surgery, the first thing the doc said to me in my first post-op visit was more or less "I know you are going to ask when you can start swimming again and I can't answer you yet--but we'll get you there as soon as we can."
The only other thought I can give you is that it might be worthwhile to get someone who knows swimming and anatomy to take a long look at your stroke, just in case there is something obviously causing problems.
I know it's hard! Good luck.
I am 61 with"twitchy" shoulders and knees.3 years ago it took about 6 mo of PT to get my shoulder in swimming shape.During that time I did lots of kicking and some one arm swimming.I also did some easy range of motion swimming with both arms.I told my Dr and PT up front that I was a swimmer and that I would follow any and all recommendations as long as they did not include not swimming.Now in my warm up I start with very slow,range of motion swimming.I then massage my shoulders before any fast swimming.In the work out I do race pace work with recovery swims between(or during) sets.I do most of warm up and recovery swims with fins to further reduce shoulder strain.Fist swimming is another way to decrease shoulder strain and is a great drill anyway.Fist sprints can really help with arm speed.
I would find another PT, one who is willing to work with you so that you can continue to swim. Stengthening the rotator cuff and performing exercises that stabilize the scapula do make a difference. You should of course modify your stroke to minimize impingement and exercise extreme caution if you decide to use paddles. Train every other day for now and increase the yardage gradually. Finally, I really advocate ice at bedtime.
Shoulder issues are ubiquitous among Masters swimmers. Address the problem and keep swimming.
