Time Line and Heat Sheets are Available!

I haven't looked at the heat sheets but I assume they use pyramid seeding since it's a championship meet. The heats are seeded so each one (by entry time) would be a perfect pyramid if everyone swam their entry times. This allows the fastest 6 or 8 in be in middle lanes in their heats.

Elaine, It's because we're "leftovers." The software that does the seeding seeds full heats of each age group first, then basically sticks the leftover swimmers in other heats. Think positive - we'll be done with the event that much sooner! :bliss: Anna Lea

No, they do not do cicle seed for the top heats. It's seeded slowest to fastest by heat so the first heat is the slowest 10 swimmers and the last heat is the fastest 10 heats. It would really be nice if they did circle seed as this is championship meet. It would not make sense, though, to circle seed a timed final event. In a timed final event, the two fastest people should be swimming next to each other. If you circle seed a timed final event, then you have the #1, #2, and #3 seeds all swimming in different heats, and not swimming head-to-head. Imagine if it were the 500 freestyle. You're the #2 seed. It's circle-seeded. The #1 seed swims in the heat after you. He beats you by 0.01 seconds. Wouldn't you have wanted to swim next to that person so you'd have the opportunity to not get out-touched in a 500 free? -Rick

It would not make sense, though, to circle seed a timed final event. In a timed final event, the two fastest people should be swimming next to each other. If you circle seed a timed final event, then you have the #1, #2, and #3 seeds all swimming in different heats, and not swimming head-to-head. Imagine if it were the 500 freestyle. You're the #2 seed. It's circle-seeded. The #1 seed swims in the heat after you. He beats you by 0.01 seconds. Wouldn't you have wanted to swim next to that person so you'd have the opportunity to not get out-touched in a 500 free? -Rick I get it, I understand why. I guess I would like to see a Masters someday sometime that is prelims/finals.

I get it, I understand why. I guess I would like to see a Masters someday sometime that is prelims/finals. I agree with wolf, would be nice to have this format at a meet or two a year.

I get it, I understand why. I guess I would like to see a Masters someday sometime that is prelims/finals. Probably your best bet for this is to find a USA-S meet in that format and get them to agree to a dual sanction. However, from a masters perspective, it is a pain in two respects: -- if the course has a movable bulkhead, according to the rules you have to do measurements after each session in order for the times to be eligible for submission for Top Ten consideration. So that means twice a day, instead of once. -- the tools we use for submission of results into the Meet Results Database (which, among other things, feeds into the "Current Event Rankings") are not set up to deal with meets in a Prelim/Final format. Before I submit it, I have to manually alter the SDIF file in a text editor. Not a big deal when it is just a couple swimmers in each season, but it would be a huge hassle if there were many such. Because there isn't much demand for such, updating the tools to deal with P/F has a pretty low priority right now compared to other projects. As a swimmer: personally, I can live without prelims/finals, it makes meets much more tiring...

As a swimmer: personally, I can live without prelims/finals, it makes meets much more tiring... I agree. Some of the younger people could do it but imagine an 80+ year old having to do trials and finals?

Probably your best bet for this is to find a USA-S meet in that format and get them to agree to a dual sanction. However, from a masters perspective, it is a pain in two respects: -- if the course has a movable bulkhead, according to the rules you have to do measurements after each session in order for the times to be eligible for submission for Top Ten consideration. So that means twice a day, instead of once. -- the tools we use for submission of results into the Meet Results Database (which, among other things, feeds into the "Current Event Rankings") are not set up to deal with meets in a Prelim/Final format. Before I submit it, I have to manually alter the SDIF file in a text editor. Not a big deal when it is just a couple swimmers in each season, but it would be a huge hassle if there were many such. Because there isn't much demand for such, updating the tools to deal with P/F has a pretty low priority right now compared to other projects. As a swimmer: personally, I can live without prelims/finals, it makes meets much more tiring... Plus, USA-S meet directors look at you like you are crazy when you do multiple measurements. What, "Pools have to be measured!"

I agree. Some of the younger people could do it but imagine an 80+ year old having to do trials and finals? Maybe we have 2010 Nationals as Trials and then 2011 Nationals as Finals ;)

The biggest problem, I think, is that in a true trials/finals meet, you need to have a championship final heat for the top 1-8 (or 1-10) qualifiers. Since masters is scored by age group, you would need to have a finals for each separate age group! Otherwise, there is no real fair way to establish points. If you do prelims/finals just by time (no age group), then consider the following scenario: * For the example, only the top 8 return at night for finals. No consols, bonus, etc. Just top 8. * In the 30-34 age group, there are swimmers A, B, and C. * Event is the 50 free. In prelims, the following times are performed: - Swimmer A: 30.00 (qualifies 7th overall) - Swimmer B: 30.01 (qualifies 8th overall) - Swimmer C: 30.02 (qualifies 9th overall, does not make finals) * Then at night in finals, only Swimmer A and Swimmer B swim, since Swimmer C did not qualify. In finals, the following times are performed: - Swimmer A: 30.50 - Swimmer B: 30.40 How do you score the event? Who won? Swimmer A had the fastest time overall, but it was from prelims. Swimmer B was faster in finals. Swimmer C was slowest in the morning, but was still faster than Swimmer A or B swam in finals. It would also mean that you'd, practically, never get any 70+ swimmers ever qualifying for finals. All in all, it creates a scenario where, as an expectation, there are different parameters for scoring points depending on your speed and age group. I.e., not a level playing field. -Rick