The Middle Distance Lane

I seem to vaguely recall that USA-S passed a rule amendment that said that counters are NOT required for the 400, and that the Rule Committee recommended against USMS adopting it. But it isn't clear from the minutes and my memory of that is hazy: www.usms.org/.../rules-2010-9-18-2.pdf Since most of the officials at USMS meets are usually USA-S officials, it may be that the rules changed for one and not the other and they didn't know that. If you really want to know, I'd suggest emailing either Charlie Cockrell (chair of the Officials Committee) or Kathy Casey (chair of the Rules Committee).

This thread got me thinking and I may as well ask my question(s) now.... I have been used to swimming SCM in the UK, and sometimes we got a counter on the 400, sometimes not. And it was one of the timekeepers who did the counting with those plastic flip-over thingys. So for the 800, 1500 and 400 (when there was a counter), they would reach over and blow a whistle down your ear as you turned when you had 2 lengths to go. Reading this, I guess things are a bit different here - would I need to provide my own counter if I entered a 500 or 1000 yd ? ( I usually count fine, but its nice to know). And is a whistle allowed, or would the counter need to dunk the board in the pool? And are the counting boards provided by the meet? Thanks :blush:

Also, in the US, the convention is to count UP, so a 500 would be counted 1, 3, 5, 7, ... 19 whereas I understand the convention in Europe is to count DOWN, so an SCM 800 would be counted 31, 29, 27, ... 1. You know I never even thought about counting up/down, and now you mention it - yes I was always counted down, but I probably just ignored the particularly depressing sight of 60 on the board at the start of a 1500. Thanks to all for the info. I just now need to hope my other half does not plan his trip to Israel to coincide with the 2 upcoming meets I'm thinking of. And find a friend to count for me :)

hey couldbebetterfly would I need to provide my own counter if I entered a 500 or 1000 yd ? YES, ask a friend to count for you And is a whistle allowed? NO only refs have whistles but in masters distance events the ref rings a bell on each swimmers last lap would the counter need to dunk the board in the pool? YES, And are the counting boards provided by the meet? yes, usually they should be and now some pools offer plastic counters on sticks

And is a whistle allowed? NO only refs have whistles but in masters distance events the ref rings a bell on each swimmers last lap In my experience, the only meet at which every swimmer in the heat gets a bell is Nationals. At our local meets, the only bell is for the lead swimmer in the heat. And are the counting boards provided by the meet? yes, usually they should be and now some pools offer plastic counters on sticks Sometimes the pool has a set of counting boards for each lane, but sometimes they do not. Our team usually brings two, on poles so that the person counting can put the numbers in the water without sitting or kneeling on the deck. We are always happy to loan them out when we don't need them, but we have had people walk away with them thinking that they are for anyone's use, which is extremely uncool if we have a swimmer in an upcoming heat. If you did not bring your own counting cards or come with a team that did, you can almost always find a set to borrow from the host team or from another competitor, but you should not assume that you can just help yourself to a set that you see on deck.

... would I need to provide my own counter if I entered a 500 or 1000 yd ? ... is a whistle allowed ... And are the counting boards provided by the meet? I am obviously not the right guy to consult for the officially official interpretation of the rules, but in all the meets I've been to so far, (a) the swimmer is responsible for recruiting his or her own counter (this led to a desperate scramble for me just before the 1000 at last spring's nationals); (b) the meet officials ring a bell when the FIRST swimmer has two laps to go (but not for any of the other swimmers); (c) the counting boards are provided by the meet, you don't have to bring your own. Also, in the US, the convention is to count UP, so a 500 would be counted 1, 3, 5, 7, ... 19 whereas I understand the convention in Europe is to count DOWN, so an SCM 800 would be counted 31, 29, 27, ... 1.

Also, in the US, the convention is to count UP, so a 500 would be counted 1, 3, 5, 7, ... 19 whereas I understand the convention in Europe is to count DOWN, so an SCM 800 would be counted 31, 29, 27, ... 1. Reminds me of our son's 500 at the state meet this year... The 500 isn't one of his favorite events, so he wanted to try something new (and presumably safely rebellious). He decided that he wanted me to count him down as opposed to up, because one of the star swimmers in his club who now swims for UGA likes to be counted down. I let the counters on either side of me know what I was doing just so they wouldn't be confused, but I probably should have told the timers on the other side of the pool too. My husband, who was timing for our son, overheard one of the other timers say, "WHAT is that woman doing? That poor swimmer!" My husband then had to explain that our son actually wanted us to count him down. It apparently worked, as our son had a PB for that swim. :)

Yes, it was at the St. Nick's meet, and I was in the next lane. Good to see you again! Unfortunately the 400 was the last event of the day, so I was also kinda sluggish in that race. But I did have a PB earlier in the day! Except for the curious incident with the counters, the St. Nick's meet was a very good meet -- well done, well run, and lots of fun. I would recommend it to anyone. If they have it again next year, I will certainly go! It's great to see out-of-staters come to one day meets. St. Nick's is pretty much an annual event for the local masters teams. I do wish the meet started a little earlier, but the later start makes it easier for travel. It's all good. Congratulations on your PB! I really can't complain about my 400. My head just wasn't into it. I had 3 PBs in my first three events, and had fun to boot. And it's always a treat to swim at Georgia Tech.

After my swim this morning I have decided on the go out fast and hold on theory for my upcoming 500. Thinking way back I actually did this unintentionally the day I set my PR for the 400. It also brought back the pain and suffering it took to get there, and I now have 6+ minutes of pain to look forward to on Saturday rather than 5+. If you do it right, you still may only have 5+ minutes of pain and suffering! I like the "go out fast and hold on technique" as well. If my training is all there, it'll come. If not I'll still die anyway, so I just figure Go For It! Also if there's anyone here going to the DAM meet at the weekend and can count to 20 for me (or even count 20 down to 0), it'd be much appreciated. I can count when not swimming - even to 66 :) I'll be going to the DAM meet too! But I'm not really sure that it's the same meet you're talking about. I'll be in Courd A'Lane, Idaho!! :bolt:

After my swim this morning I have decided on the go out fast and hold on theory for my upcoming 500. Thinking way back I actually did this unintentionally the day I set my PR for the 400. It also brought back the pain and suffering it took to get there, and I now have 6+ minutes of pain to look forward to on Saturday rather than 5+. Just needed to get that out where people might understand.... Also if there's anyone here going to the DAM meet at the weekend and can count to 20 for me (or even count 20 down to 0), it'd be much appreciated. I can count when not swimming - even to 66 :) Ha! In High School I did the go out fast and hold on...but I didn't do much holding on. Mostly because I wanted to swim the 100 & 200 and my coach had me pegged as a distance guy. I had to beat the guys swimming 100 with my splits before the coach would take me seriously as a sprinter. Of course, now I try to pace it better, but I find that if I go out too slow, it's hard to get the speed I need (want?) in the second half. So I'm trying to go out faster. My times are getting better, but the fades are pretty bad, too. Getting old, I guess:cane: