Some Aging Competitors Call High-Tech Swimsuits Dirty Pool

Since when are tech suits made of neoprene? That would be a wetsuit, and wetsuits have always been illegal in pool racing. The ones that will not be allowed after January are lycra with a polyurethane coating.

Since when are tech suits made of neoprene? That would be a wetsuit, and wetsuits have always been illegal in pool racing. The ones that will not be allowed after January are lycra with a polyurethane coating. You mean Yamamoto rubber. www.yamamoto-bio.com/.../sports.html Only cheap wetsuits are made of neoprene these days. Most are made from Yamamoto rubber. Same with the Tech suits. The only difference is the thickness.

I guess my problem is that the only compelling argument that I can see for the suit ban is the economic argument - and I think this argument is weak. Granted, the new suits made a difference in the new records. But by the same token, the "new" starting blocks made a difference in years past, and no one cared because we all use the same blocks. Similarly, the "new" *** stroke rules meant faster times - but no one objected because everyone had the same rules. I would prefer we go back to old-school backstroke turns, for aesthetic reasons of course (that, and the fact that my poorly executed "new" turns may actually cost me time rather than saving time). Why should the change in suits be any different from the other changes? (Well, to sum up: the new suits are different, the line of reasoning goes, because of the economic argument that says they gives an unfair advantage to some swimmers - to which I respond that if we really cared about making everyone equal and if we really wanted to eliminate the advantages that some people have over others, then we would impose a limit on the biggest difference-maker in swimming, which is training and work ethic; this, of course, is contrary to the most fundamental spirit of our sport and thus is a dumb idea).

If you want to do well at Nationals you have to go to Nationals.That can be really expensive if it is not close.Worlds is even more expensive.Tech suit cost is a small fraction of this.

Why should the change in suits be any different from the other changes? All of these other things affect everyone equally. However, not everyone can get the latest and greatest suit. And before you disagree, just look at the World Championships in Rome where the greatest swimmer in the world was contractually obligated to wear an inferior suit. Maybe at some point in the future things would have settled down and this wouldn't have been an issue but there would still be the "it's because of the suit" argument. So why not just take the suit out of the equation? Let the fastest swimmer win. That, too me, is the most compelling argument.

just look at the World Championships in Rome where the greatest swimmer in the world was contractually obligated to wear an inferior suit. First: Why should we change the rules, which affect everyone, in order to protect "the greatest swimmer in the world" from the consequences of poor business judgment? The solution to that problem is not a change in global rules, but to quietly suggest that "the greatest swimmer in the world" get a better agent. Second: It's not clear that there's THAT much difference between the suits. And if there is, then any problems can be solved simply by requiring the suit companies to make their best suits available to everyone, with transparent pricing policies. Sorry for hijacking this thread - and for stirring a horse that should be dead by now. With this, I'll shut up and go back to trying to learn a new school backstroke turn ...

One small point I would like to make as I have been corrected on this myself. There are no "ex-Olympians". Michael Phelps is an Olympian, as is Mark Spitz, Donna DeVerona and Clay Evans. Now, you may continue with this thread........:bolt:

I guess that's an argument, but not very compelling. To complete the hijacking, I think we'll just need Fort and Gull to join the conversation.... I just wanted to observe that I think it did ultimately come down to cost and availability for many people. I'm not talking about cost or availability at the world class level (where they could all get them (other than poor Mr. Phelps)) or at the Masters level (where those that want them can generally afford them). I'm talking about all levels below the world class level in the "elite" system (college, age group, national, etc.). Coaches (college coaches with budget constraints in particular) and parents simply did not want to pay $400 for a suit in the first place, and sure didn't love the idea that such a suit would become technologically obsolete in less than a year, forcing them to plunk down yet another $400 for the next model (also likely to become obsolete). I'm no fan of the cost/availability argument myself, but I do think it was a compelling one for many people and wouldn't be surprised if it was the biggest reason that the suits got banned. If tech suits cost $80-$100 they would likely still be legal. When the cost of the technology behind the suits comes down to that level, I won't be surprise (though saddened) to see the tech suits make a comeback.

If you want to do well at Nationals you have to go to Nationals.That can be really expensive if it is not close.Worlds is even more expensive.Tech suit cost is a small fraction of this. Seriously, my bill for 5 days at Indy was ginormous. :afraid: Much much worse than my suit bill. Further random comments just for Midas: 1. I swam slower in my Jaked than my old B70 except in one event. 2. Cost is not a very compelling reason to me for adults. However, I have always said that age groupers should be regulated apart from open champs meets. 3. I don't give a toss about poor Mr. Phelps competing in a LZR. 4. The "it's because of the suit" argument is just the newest of the "its because of the ______ arguments. 5. The fastest people will still be the hardest workers (like CS or KPN) despite GoodSmith's stupid elitist "some are taking it too seriously" remarks. 6. No way does the suit give anything close to the time differences between Mann and Evans. Jeez, rolls eyes. 7. Tech suits don't last longer than a year. 8. This reporter tried to contact me twice, and I missed her calls. I wish I had spoken to her. Maybe the article wouldn't have been quite so ridiculously slanted. Offhand, I recall only one throwaway pro-suit quote from Rowdy ... And, sigh, "dirty" is just another word for "immoral" or wrong. :bitching::bitching::bitching:

Well - I coach and swim with SCAQ, which is the team that Clay Evans owns and runs. In his swimming times defense - he came out to the meet to support the team and to score points for our team to win the meet. He was well aware that he is not in great swimming condition - but came out anyway, I know many Olympians would not do the same. Of course I could not disagree more with him about the suits. I saw Micheal Mann swim at that meet - I saw a very good swimmer with a great stroke swimming fast times - he happened to be 55 years old and wearing a Blue 70 - but that does not change my first impression.