I have been following a few training logs here and I note a heavy emphasis on "race-pace" training with ample recovery time. I have to assume this works well since the people posting are swimming far faster than I. so here is the question: when performing a high intensity set like that, is the emphasis on maintaining the speed, taking as much recovery time as you need to keep up the speed, or should you maintain the selected turn-over time and struggle to maintain the speed in the face of increasing fatigue? If you are finding a pace too steep to maintain the speed, do you slip to a slower pace, or should you just take a break and restart the set at the same pace after a bit of recovery? I am specifically refering to speed sets done at 90 percent of race-pace or better.
The same question should be applied to stroke technique: as I fatigue my stroke tends to break-up a bit (Ok: a lot). In training should I select paces that allow me to always maintain a "perfect" stroke, or should I push into the "red zone" where I am fatigued enough that my stroke is getting ragged? BTW: my "ragged" stroke is quite a bit faster than my technical stroke, but it really is quite "splashy". My daughter actually calls me "Dr.Splashy" when she teases me.
Well, crap is a bit strong. I happen to agree with Paul.
You just disagreed with him above! You have to admit "drive by sound bite" was pretty funny.
My first 1.2 OW race was comical. As I'm sure my hypothetical, never to be experienced, 500 would be. Consequently, I am going to stick to kicking your butt in the 100 back.
You just disagreed with him above!
Until his clarification, which I did agree with. Plus, it is Friday and I'm feeling agreeable now. And, Paul might beat me up since he outweighs me by at least a Clydesdale.
Increasing speed over all distances can only be measured in the context of the specific swimmer.
How is it difficult to beleive that if you increase your speed in the 50, it is impossible to carry a portion of that speed increase into the longer distances? Again, I am NOT saying it's a direct linear relationship.
Every pool race is made up of 1 or more 50's strung together. The 50 is the building block for EVERY pool event. So improving your 50 time (be it an all up sprint or holding a faster pace) is the only way to swim faster over longer distances.
How's that crap taste now??????
Well actually Dave Salo at 'SC said Ous never trains for 1500's in workout by swimming 1500's...He strings together 100's trying to hold :58's
...RACE PACE...
Sure, but he's doing them on short rest, which is traditional, no? I can't imagine he's "stringing" together 100s @ 6:00.
I don't think wolf was comparing one person to another, but one person to him/herself.
Thanks Geek, but it is still crap. Paul's example is valid for someone who is out of shape. If I am out of shape, running will improve my 50 free times because my physical condition is so bad. Can we overgeneralize a little further and just say exercise is exercise?
Your 50 time does not have to improve for your 1650 to improve and vice versa. If I stop swimming aerobic sets completely and adopt 8x25 AFAP on 4:00 only workouts, what will happen to my 50 and my 1650? What happens if I only train distance endurance sets of repeats 400 or further after that sprint training? Will my fast twitch response decrease thus hurting my 50 performance at the benefit of my 1650?
This thread is specifically about sprint training vs. old school middle distance training. If Paul's overgeneralization is really true, then there is no problem training 10x100 to get faster at the 50. Being able to hold the shortest rest repeat possible would be great, or at least as good as 3x100 on 6:00 AFAP, because speed is speed.
I am calling Paul out for doing a drive by sound bite. I know what he meant, but that differs from what he posted.
i enjoy sets of 100's - 500's at a fast pace with a few seconds rest much more than i do "quality" or race pace sets.
Finally, someone who knows what they are talking about. Boo boo to the rest of you. This is the gospel, do not dispute it!
Well, crap is a bit strong.
Crap was the only thing I could come up with that wasn't already censored. But the next time I expect you to come to the rescue of a damsel in distress, I will tone it down. How is "an unknown brown smear on the sole of my new shoes." Is that more appropriate?
I over simplified
Can't you see I am just expounding on Paul's own admission Geek?
in another 5000 meters I will have completed 1 million meters this year .....
This morning I knocked off 4600 meters in about 1 hour and twenty minutes. ...
Keep in mind that my only real goal is to go a sub 5:00 400 meters free. I would really like to go 4:50 or better. ....
Today I managed to make all 8x 50 without the break, but I stepped the turn-over back to 55 seconds. WAS THIS JUST ANOTHER COP-OUT? Or did I do it right: maintain the speed and allow myself more recovery to do so?....
IMHO, you are in desperate need of some speed training. Take it from a recent convert. You are doing a tremendous amount of yardage for someone who isn't going under 5:00 for a 400m free. Don't get me wrong- I'm not knocking you, I just think you need to ditch the old-school, "face down" mentality and incorporate more quality training (and subsequently less yardage) if racing is your goal. You will save time in your workout and get more speed in your 400. :2cents:
It is difficult for me to believe that if Grant Hackett stopped training like Grant Hackett and started training like Cesar Cielo that his 50 time would improve and his 1500M time would improve.
You don't think that Hackett incorporated speed work in his training? But le's leave the top .1% of the 10% of the human race that swims out of the picture.
What I see from the traditional Masters swimmer is a hesitancy to do speed work. Thinking that the only way to get faster swimming the longer events such as the 500 and up is to swim more 500s and up. Neglecting speed training is missing a key ingredient in improving. Or as Ande says to 'swimming faster, faster'. Does that mean 100% of the time doing sprint training? Heck no. But does that mean there should be some all-up sprints in the training plan? Oh yeah.
