I have no beef with PB ribbons in swimming because it's nice for a kid to see tangible evidence of actual improvement. This is a summer league thing only of course.
I would like them to stop giving kids PB and participation ribbons and instead give them in the 40-44 male age group for those of us that are slow and suck.
As a father of an adolescent girl, you might want to read Reviving Ophelia.
Thanks, I'll check that out.
Stanford received over 30,000 applications this year with an acceptance rate of less than 8%.
Yup. I totally get that and have exposed my daughter to that. Personally, I don't think the ROI is there for an undergrad education to warrant the expense of a school like Stanford, but I want her eyes open if that's her goal. I also want her to use all of the time she has to seriously evaluate this goal and if it's right for her.
Obviously, there is a middle ground which parents need to deal with on an individual basis. However, I thought Patrick was just saying that our general population is not pushed hard enough to excel when compared with other countries and I absolutely agree. It doesn't need to be a kill or be killed mentality necessarily. I would imagine that none of us would sit around and watch our children underachieve in junior high and high school hoping and waiting that they will catch up later in life. My guess is that most kids don't catch-up when educational and work-related apathy was accepted and reinforced during their junior high and high school years. The working environment is much different than when most of us first entered the workforce. We probably had it a lot easier because the pool of talent available in many well paying fields is now global rather than just local.
Kid sports that don't keep score is just a joke. Almost every kid and parent still knows the score. If they don't want to keep score, why do they even have games? Just have more practices and learn skills and endurance, etc.
Tim
My 5 yo played T ball this year and at this level, no score is kept. The idea is to get the kids into the game, learn some skills, and have some fun. I thought it was a great program, not a joke. YMMV
Kid sports that don't keep score is just a joke. Almost every kid and parent still knows the score. If they don't want to keep score, why do they even have games? Just have more practices and learn skills and endurance, etc.
Ninny here.
The world is a harsh place for some. I try to allow my kids the chance to avoid that scene while they can.
I have three children. My two oldest are gifted athletes.
My youngest found the long lost family gene of intelligence. She is 8 years old and the worst soccer player I have ever seen. My daughter has single handedly caused her team to lose games. She is oblivious to the teamwork concept, intent, and strategty. Yet, she love love loves (her words) the sport. My guess is that some day she will shine on the soccer field, but I won't hold my breath waiting.
She has all of her participation ribbons hung up in her room. My other two kids couldn't care less about the numerous awards they have received.
My youngest daughter's intelligence is going to provide more for her later in life than having good athletic skills.
When she enters your cutthroat world she will be ready. I'll bet she will still have her participation ribbons too.
I try to teach my kids to compete. When I play one-on-one basketball with my 12-year-old daughter, I try to block every shot. (I'm 6-2; she's 5-2.) If she wants to win, she's just going to have to play better.
We don't play as often as I would like.
from the article:
"A decade ago, marriage and children brought to an end the elite triathlon career of M* R*, a 50-year-old Chicago metals trader. But in the pool where he swims these days, he competes against whoever is in the lane beside him, particularly if that athlete appears younger, "and I'm crushed if he's faster than me, even though he doesn't know I exist," says Mr. R*".
What a toad.
Through all this, though, they'll know what it takes to reach a certain goal and what others are doing to compete for that goal. For example, my oldest daughter (8th grade) really thinks she wants to go to Cal-Berkeley or Stanford and swim there. We downloaded both the academic requirements and swimming times for their freshman class and showed her that. We also explained that while it might look like she's got 4+ years to achieve those goals, she has to start today to put herself on the right trajectory. I'd rather have their eyes wide open than behind rose-colored glasses.
I don't think that promoting a focus on winning has to come at the detriment of having fun or of being well-balanced. My "heroes" are those folks who "win" by having a well-balanced life across career, home and personal interests. However, as that is seemingly a goal for practically all Americans and I imagine most Americans don't believe they're achieving it, it's a goal that clearly requires excellence.
As a father of an adolescent girl, you might want to read Reviving Ophelia. Stanford received over 30,000 applications this year with an acceptance rate of less than 8%. Setting goals is great, but our "focus on winning" does come at a price.
The idea that our schools do not compete on a global level is a complete farce perpetrated by folks with a political agenda. Well meaning but unaware people so earnestly believe this, though, that people look at you funny when you disagree. Here are the facts: In the US we do not track our children. Every child takes math, english, history, science, some PE, some fine arts and a few electives. When our kids are tested against other countries we take an average sample (typically from Minnesota public schools, FYI). These tests are then compared against students who are tracked towards math or science careers in their countries. It is this simple: our average are compared against other coutries best. Well no kidding we don't do as well.
My source: The Maufactured Crisis. Our schools are just fine, though of course I hope we keep trying to make them better.
My points earlier on pushing kids and setting high standards weren't just limited to schools, but to our society in general. Schools are just one example where our collective will has resulted in (IMHO) lowered bars for achievement.
I don't think I have a political agenda* and I agree that there is significant tracking in a number of other countries. I'm also not an academic and have not studied this rigorously, so I admittedly have only my experience. Having said that, I have been trying to hire Masters' and PhD engineers, mathematicians, statisticians and other analytical types for well over a decade ... and have mostly learned about the intricacies of our H1B, L1, B1, etc. immigration process. If I pursued a "hire American" only policy, my last three companies would be woefully lacking in staff primarily because there are so few American students even in those programs. Now, granted, this is the tip of the academic world, but it speaks to a funnel through which not enough American kids are passing into hard sciences careers. Well, at least it speaks that to me. In a world of increasing technological complexity, this doesn't seem to bode well ... especially while we try to tighten up our immigration policies against the exact kind of high intellect people we do need to drive technological innovation. (OK, I do have a political and business agenda on that front, but will say no more)
I've certainly helped to derail this thread, so I'll go back to my battle cry for all of us over 50 or approaching going over 50: DON'T GIVE UP COMPETING! THERE LIES DANGER!
* but, as an aside, I hardly imagine the authors of The Manufactured Crisis to be apolitical in their use of data
I believe they are taught that lesson well. Children are placed on waiting lists for private schools before they are even born. Their free time is filled with extracurricular activities at which they are expected to excel. Then their parents spend tens of thousands of dollars on consultants to assist them in the college application process.
sure ... some of them are taught this at the upper end of the spectrum, but I think we as a nation are generally guilty of setting the bar too low for our children ... if you have time and interest, though, check out http://www.2mminutes.com/ to see what our typical kids are up against when competing now and in the future in the global economy.
How a student spends their Two Million Minutes - in class, at home studying, playing sports, working, sleeping, socializing or just goofing off -- will affect their economic prospects for the rest of their lives.
I think that there has been a sea change in what is expected of our children today. After high school (during which time neither I nor my parents were obsessing about my economic prospects and how to fill the two million minutes--which is not to say that I did not study), I spent the next eight million minutes preparing for my career.
Me too, and I agree with Gull.
Where I live, it's cutthroat competitive and fun/free time is a seemingly low priority. I find myself trying to protect this for my kids rather than emphasize even more work, more competing. That's naturally built in to the fabric of their daily lives.
College admissions folks tell me they can often spot those consultant-aided college applications.
Agree with Jon and Quick on the "toad" comment. Really pathetic.
