2009 News WSJ Older, Wiser, Slower After 50

That's pretty depressing to people whom are over 50 and still competitive. I'm not looking forwarding to aging since what I mostly do revolves around my running and working out but that's life I guess.

I read that article this morning. It is a very relevant article. The article doesn't suggest not competing. It just points out that it is OK not to win. Some intensely competitive people might give up their sport if they can't win. Instead they should probably learn to accept a lower level of achievement than they would have before.

Me too, and I agree with Gull. Where I live, it's cutthroat competitive and fun/free time is a seemingly low priority. I find myself trying to protect this for my kids rather than emphasize even more work, more competing. That's naturally built in to the fabric of their daily lives. College admissions folks tell me they can often spot those consultant-aided college applications. Obviously, there is a middle ground which parents need to deal with on an individual basis. However, I thought Patrick was just saying that our general population is not pushed hard enough to excel when compared with other countries and I absolutely agree. It doesn't need to be a kill or be killed mentality necessarily. I would imagine that none of us would sit around and watch our children underachieve in junior high and high school hoping and waiting that they will catch up later in life. My guess is that most kids don't catch-up when educational and work-related apathy was accepted and reinforced during their junior high and high school years. The working environment is much different than when most of us first entered the workforce. We probably had it a lot easier because the pool of talent available in many well paying fields is now global rather than just local. Kid sports that don't keep score is just a joke. Almost every kid and parent still knows the score. If they don't want to keep score, why do they even have games? Just have more practices and learn skills and endurance, etc. Tim

Obviously, there is a middle ground which parents need to deal with on an individual basis. However, I thought Patrick was just saying that our general population is not pushed hard enough to excel when compared with other countries and I absolutely agree. It doesn't need to be a kill or be killed mentality necessarily. I would imagine that none of us would sit around and watch our children underachieve in junior high and high school hoping and waiting that they will catch up later in life. My guess is that most kids don't catch-up when educational and work-related apathy was accepted and reinforced during their junior high and high school years. The working environment is much different than when most of us first entered the workforce. We probably had it a lot easier because the pool of talent available in many well paying fields is now global rather than just local. Kid sports that don't keep score is just a joke. Almost every kid and parent still knows the score. If they don't want to keep score, why do they even have games? Just have more practices and learn skills and endurance, etc. Tim Tim -- yes!

Ninny here. The world is a harsh place for some. I try to allow my kids the chance to avoid that scene while they can. I have three children. My two oldest are gifted athletes. My youngest found the long lost family gene of intelligence. She is 8 years old and the worst soccer player I have ever seen. My daughter has single handedly caused her team to lose games. She is oblivious to the teamwork concept, intent, and strategty. Yet, she love love loves (her words) the sport. My guess is that some day she will shine on the soccer field, but I won't hold my breath waiting. She has all of her participation ribbons hung up in her room. My other two kids couldn't care less about the numerous awards they have received. My youngest daughter's intelligence is going to provide more for her later in life than having good athletic skills. When she enters your cutthroat world she will be ready. I'll bet she will still have her participation ribbons too. Sounds quite a bit like my 3 kids ... except for my brainy eldest who is a homework minimalist so that he has more time for sports. My 8 year old spent much of the summer checking her swim folder for PB and participation ribbons.

Ninny here. The world is a harsh place for some. I try to allow my kids the chance to avoid that scene while they can. I have three children. My two oldest are gifted athletes. My youngest found the long lost family gene of intelligence. She is 8 years old and the worst soccer player I have ever seen. My daughter has single handedly caused her team to lose games. She is oblivious to the teamwork concept, intent, and strategty. Yet, she love love loves (her words) the sport. My guess is that some day she will shine on the soccer field, but I won't hold my breath waiting. She has all of her participation ribbons hung up in her room. My other two kids couldn't care less about the numerous awards they have received. My youngest daughter's intelligence is going to provide more for her later in life than having good athletic skills. When she enters your cutthroat world she will be ready. I'll bet she will still have her participation ribbons too. Cutthroat here I have three daughters ... none of whom appear to be naturally gifted athletes (well, maybe the 6 year old but it's too soon to tell). Then again, neither was I. Let's see ... baseball ... right field was too critical a position to put me in soccer ... there was that one game when it rained enough to keep enough of the team home so that the coach had to substitute me in when one of the other guys went down in the mud basketball ... I remember the junior high school gym teacher's excitement the first day when he saw my tall self walk in ... only to deflate about 5 minutes later when he saw I couldn't throw, catch, dribble, pass or run swimming ... I quit my first summer team ostensibly because the water was too cold, but probably because my sister beat me I did get better at swimming, but through some coaches setting some big, hairy, audacious goals for an impressionable group of 10 year olds and, yes, some latent talent and body type that helped out. Now, clearly, I didn't reach all those goals or I'd be staring at my multiple Olympic golds and notes from Vladimir Salnikov expressing his amazement at how bad I crushed his 1500 meter free world record, but it taught me soooo much that is valuable in life these days. My daughters, though not superstars in swimming (the older two are solid AA and BB/A swimmers; the younger one just starting), will either get better or they'll find something else to excel at. They'll do well in school in a challenging academic program, but that's what they expect to do and what is expected of them. They'll also have a good social life because all work and no play makes for a dull existence. Through all this, though, they'll know what it takes to reach a certain goal and what others are doing to compete for that goal. For example, my oldest daughter (8th grade) really thinks she wants to go to Cal-Berkeley or Stanford and swim there. We downloaded both the academic requirements and swimming times for their freshman class and showed her that. We also explained that while it might look like she's got 4+ years to achieve those goals, she has to start today to put herself on the right trajectory. I'd rather have their eyes wide open than behind rose-colored glasses. I don't think that promoting a focus on winning has to come at the detriment of having fun or of being well-balanced. My "heroes" are those folks who "win" by having a well-balanced life across career, home and personal interests. However, as that is seemingly a goal for practically all Americans and I imagine most Americans don't believe they're achieving it, it's a goal that clearly requires excellence.

I didn't call anyone a ninny (that was someone else). My point is that whenever a game is played the kids and the parents know the score regardless of whether their level of competence and whether anyone actually keeps score. Sports for kids are not a joke, but ignoring that everyone keeps score is a joke. Perhaps, 5 year old T-ball or soccer is somewhat of an exception. Surprisingly, I volunteer coach for my kids teams (recreational leagues mostly) and teaching the skills necessary to win and everyone improving and having fun is all I really care about. Every league (T-ball, baseball, soccer, basketball) no matter whether they keep score or not the kids always know whether they win or not, their team record, and who scored the most points. Denying that is like denying human nature. I have 3 kids. 2 are natural athletes and the other struggles a quite a bit so I understand both ends of the spectrum, but I push them all to improve and it wouldn't surprise me at all if the one that struggles now is a star in high school or even college. I have never seen a kid or group of kids happier in sports then when they make a big improvement and they also win a game. When they don't win (even if they have played well and I am happy) the kids excitement is just a not quite the same. I don't know if that is somewhat sad or not, but it is the way it is. We always downplay the losses and use them to decide what skills we need to work on next. I think learning from losses and identifying weaknesses and correcting them is one of the most important things kids can learn in sports. Keeping score feeds the whole feedback system. School is pretty much the same thing. Tim

If the new definition of achievement in sports is merely showing up then lets dispense with giving trophies or awards for exceptional performance, what's the point?

If the new definition of achievement in sports is merely showing up then lets dispense with giving trophies or awards for exceptional performance, what's the point? Don't most youth sports stop with the participation trophies once the kids are over 8 or so? I have no beef with PB ribbons in swimming because it's nice for a kid to see tangible evidence of actual improvement. This is a summer league thing only of course.

Don't most youth sports stop with the participation trophies once the kids are over 8 or so? I have no beef with PB ribbons in swimming because it's nice for a kid to see tangible evidence of actual improvement. This is a summer league thing only of course. I wish they stopped at that age. I guess it depends on the league and sport. Swimming stopped with PB ribbons for summer club here at 7 or 8. YMCA and other recreational leagues seem to continue with participation trophies or medals for every league up to age 13 at least.