If the full body rubber suits do end up getting banned, why should USMS follow their lead on this issue? (i.e. assuming the suits would continue to be manufactured).
Isn't Masters mostly for each individual to pursue what they want and the level they want out of the sport?
If the full body suit is preferred by many USMS participants, why not satisfy the base by keeping it available?
What's really the point of forcing old USMS swimmers out of their girdles if FINA bans them?
John Smith
I think the tune might change next year to "bring back the rubber" if there are virtually no world records set and you have a whole season of disappointed swimmers who aren't lowering their times.
Jeez, I would hope not. It seems like the primary reason to ban the suits is too many records being set. If no records are set next year this would be achieving exactly what they're going for. I'm sure nearly everyone out there realizes they're going to swim slower when they go from a rubber suit to a textile jammer.
Jeez, I would hope not. It seems like the primary reason to ban the suits is too many records being set. If no records are set next year this would be achieving exactly what they're going for. I'm sure nearly everyone out there realizes they're going to swim slower when they go from a rubber suit to a textile jammer.
Knowing it intellectually in advance and then dealing with it emotionally in real-time are two very different states of mind. What's going to happen to the TV ratings when the headlines are all about how slow everyone's swimming, how Michael & Milorad are both depressed cause they can't crack 50 any more, how Speedo's threatening to pull Bowman's contract because the golden boy's 'washed up' ... call me a skeptic or conspiracy theorist but I think people haven't fully considered the emotional and non-rational implications of this choice.
I think we humans have a very hard time accepting a retrograde in technology in any aspect of our lives ... AOL dial-up anyone? ... and don't imagine we'll deal well with this collectively.
What will be cool, though, is if Biederman still beats Phelps in the 200.
My son is 14 and swimming at the Western Zone championships this week in Hawaii in regular Fastkin Pro leggins against kids in full-body rubber wonder suits. He knows the value of his swims, and so does everyone else at the meet.
He also hates his father for it...
AND...the 6' 5" 130lb 13 year old just went 57+ 100 fly & 1:58+ 200 free...long course.
Thanks God he has his mothers genes...
-- The suits will soon be gone, no matter what USMS decides. I may be mistaken, but I don't think masters swimming can support the likes of Jaked, Arena, Speedo, B70 making those suits or coming up with new ones.
You are forgetting about the legions of deep-pocketed triathletes who spend large amounts of dough for performance. I have been seeing quite a few TYR Soyaronas at tri events.
We have to keep the suits going, otherwise we might as well close down the discussion board. They may make you about 2-3% faster but they easily generate 50% of the comments on the site ...
There is no way USMS can or should have a different rule than FINA. It's already bad enough our main championship is in yards :badday: --- there is an idea. We can allow anything for yards meets, because nobody outside the US really understands or cares and we follow FINA for the real swimming.
Not sure if FINA may allow the suits for Masters. I don't think it's the "it's just Masters" attitude. I think it goes more along the lines that the suits help people to swim closer to their former times - or for new swimmers, they just make them faster. 99% of Masters swimmers do not train at the maximum possible workload. It's some sort of trade-off > "I am swimming a great 100 Free, within 3 seconds of my all time best, based on training four 60 min workouts a week". You know that adding 4 more workouts + dryland would improve the times by another second or more, but you trade that for family, work and other interests. So the suits will cut that time by quite a bit and I think it will keep more swimmers in the sport.
I do think the current manufacturers would keep producing the current suits just for Masters - we would not get many new designs, but I think the Masters demand could be big enough for them.
I am back and forth personally - I don't like not having a true comparison to past times. I love being able to swim fast in season - I hate shaving - I like swimming close to PRs or setting PRs - even when I know about the benefit of the suit.
... call me a skeptic or conspiracy theorist but I think people haven't fully considered the emotional and non-rational implications of this choice.
I totally agree -- the question will be if the swimmers will progress further and if we will see at least a few records in the next 4 years.
I always look at track and field - especially the women's events. They now have a much cleaner sport. It was not even technology, it was PEDs causing all these ridiculous world records -- so fans should be more excited to have great performances by (hopefully) clean athletes. But I am not watching track any more -- I don't want to watch the women's long jump winner failing to clear 7 meters. The men's high jump has been at the same height for 25 years. By the way - does anybody think Usain Bolt is clean ? I would bet anything that he is not .....
John,
I guess that is not alot when compared to some, but enough to keep your feel for the water in order to swim fast. Maybe more kicking and maybe more breastroke to help the shoulders.
You are amazing in showing how something attained early in life (through rediculous hard work I might add) is difficult to deal with for someone picking up the sport late in life. I get frustrated a bit by that, but it's still fun.
So maybe 3 times a week say around 1800 yards?
rtodd,
Well, I've been out for a year due to shoulder problems, but, when I am wearing my halo and doing a routine, I get in around 2,500 (1 hour) 3 days a week. If I can get it in gear to go to a masters nationals, I will add a 4th day during each week the last month.
If Paul and Laura come to town and work out with me, I act like I'm in better shape than I am. No sense letting him have the upper hand.... :-) I did 3 workouts with my kids in 2008 to see if I could handle it. Went 4,500 a few times and couldn't function the rest of each day so I threw in the towel on that approach.
I do the same workout every day because I am too lazy to think of another one (which pisses off Paul), and I always take a month or two off after a masters nationals.
But..... to answer your question more directly..... 't think personal motivational difference by participants between the organizations is relevant.
I mean..... why do you really care if you get beat by a guy in the lane next to you at masters nationals if he is wearing a rubber space suit and you are not? You know very well the approximate benefit of the suit. Isn't knowing enough? My son is 14 and swimming at the Western Zone championships this week in Hawaii in regular Fastkin Pro leggins against kids in full-body rubber wonder suits. He knows the value of his swims, and so does everyone else at the meet.
I do agree however that the suit companies don't have sufficient base in partcipants to stay alive on masters swimming sales alone.
John Smith
...... Because you only train 10,000 a week, should we allow you to do one-handed turns -- or flipturns -- in *** and fly because you aren't "serious?"
...... I'm sure you are the same way, protestations of "seriousness" to the contrary.
Chris...... some would say one-handed turns or flip turns in *** are merely future variations of what has already happened to the sport. Do you think it was a poor path for FINA to allow a dolphin kick on a pullout? We don't touch the wall on back turns anymore and now there is a ridiculous track and field mechanism working its way onto the blocks. Dude ! It is what it is. It's not the same sport any more. Some people call it cheating, some people call it advancement. They're all changes to the sport that FINA initially rejected as illegal and then did an about face and accepted. I say leave the old people alone and let us chose what we want to wear. Breaking from FINA on one little decision doesn't bother me in the least. FINA has always been reactive, not proactive. Lately, they seem like their decision process is broken or questionable at best. What serves USMS members best is choice.
As for my "seriousness"..... You are making assumptions.
