I have noticed that some (many?) of you swimmers have the opportunity to train with age-group swimmers. How did you manage to arrange that?
I typically train early mornings (5:30, as soon as the pool opens). The local Masters club only trains in the evenings while I am still at work, so the majority of my sessions are solo, trained in the "public lanes". This works out fairly well; I am a fast enough swimmer that I usually end up with my own lane or sharing with other like-minded people. The problem is that, left to my own devices, my work-outs are all about the same. Same times, same strokes, same distance. I always go about 4000 to 4500 meters, one half swim, one quarter kick, one quarter pull. I do some sprints and tons of traditional short-rest interval training. Ho hummmmm...
It would be nice to periodically (or routinelly) swim with the age-group swimmers of my speed calibre, but I just cannot see how to arrange that without coming across as just plain kooky (and not in a good kooky way either) Maybe it is just the very traditional, old fashioned culture in this area that makes this difficult.
As an example: I once asked why the masters swimmers do not share swim meets with the age group swimmers more often to defray the costs of pool rental and increase the number of paying competitors. The major answer was that many parents do not want a bunch of "dirty old men" warming up in the same pool as their young impressionable daughters. This took me aback: at the time my daughter was a competitive swimmer and I just could not fathom that anyone could have such a dirty mind that they could imagine anything sexual happening in a crowded warm-up pool.
For the swimmers that have the opportunity to swim with age group teams: was this opportunity offered-up voluntarily by the club, or did you have to campaign the club to allow you to join as a master swimmer?
I train with my former age group club every once in a while but it is only because the same head coach is there. I tried swimming with the age group club at my Y and the head coach said no. Find out what local age group clubs are in the area and talk with the head coach or something. Plus, they might have better training hours that are more accomodating to your working schedule. Maybe they have a 5:30 workout, just as an example. Some Masters swimmer just train with an age group club.
I have noticed that some (many?) of you swimmers have the opportunity to train with age-group swimmers. How did you manage to arrange that?
I think the number of masters swimmers who do this is fairly small, but it does happen.
I have trained with 3 different age group clubs and 2 of them did not end very well.
In one case, I was living in Knoxville, TN and there was no masters swim team. Me and one other masters swimmer practiced with an age-group team. The swimmers didn't seem to mind and the coach liked it a lot. But after about one year, some parents complained because we did not pay the full team rate (we also didn't swim at all the practices; our fees were essentially prorated). We were given the option of paying the full team fees, or leaving. We left.
In another case, here in Richmond, I was swimming with the Poseidon team and everything was okay for a little while. But the team was renting the pool from a health club (of which I was a member) and the club was concerned about insurance/liability because the team practice began at 4:45am, before the health club opened. I offered to join USS as a member of the team, and I told the coach I would be willing to pay a reasonable rate based on the number of practices I swam. But the health club was pretty adamant, and the team didn't want to make waves with them b/c their relations have been strained enough.
The team I swim with now (NOVA) started a masters group of their own initiative. They own the pool they practice at. After seeing me swim, the coach invited me to participate in their age-group workouts whenever I wished because he thought it would be inspiring to the kids. That's the situation as it stands. I prefer to train with the masters group almost exclusively, but during the hard training part of my season I probably swim with the age-groupers once/week and I always try to ask first b/c I don't want to contribute to overcrowding.
I am always acutely aware that it is all about the kids. I always choose the least crowded lane and I try not to ever put myself in a position where I slow down or otherwise negatively impact the practice of an age-grouper. I should point out that the coaches, however, are uniformly VERY positive and encouraging about swimming in the pratices. I have never heard complaints from parents either. The swimmers are either indifferent (a few) or supportive and friendly (the majority). Sometimes one will ask when I'm going to practice with them again.
About meets: I have heard from a reliable source that the concern you describe about "dirty old men" has been voiced here in the US as well. But I have never experienced this attitude directly either in practices or meets. I have swum in quite a number of USS meets with nothing but overwhelmingly positive feedback. I know of others around here who have had similar experiences, including masters swimmers who have had the pleasure of competing with their sons and daughters.
Bottom line: I think that swimming with an age-group club depends very strongly on the circumstances. I hope this helps.
Our age-group club welcomes masters swimmers to swim with the age-group swimmers. Depending on your level, you may end up in a lane with 8 year olds, or you might find yourself with 17 year olds. At our local club - once you put on a swim-suit, you are just like everybody else.
My best advice would be just to talk to the coach, voice your concern, and tell him your motive. Some snooty parents might look at you funny during the first workout, but give it a week, and the lanes will seem strange without you, should you miss a practice.
I've heard the "dirty old men" comment at our local club as well. Some of the swim moms have too much time on their hands.
Some of our adult swimmers will ask the head coach for permission to swim with the elite USAS group if they can make the sets. Generally they are not getting sufficient quality of training swimming the coached Masters workouts, or their schedule conflicts with the USMS practices. Some are fast enough to focus on higher-caliber USAS and FINA meets. Anybody doing these workouts is probably focused on survival. The swim moms so worried about their "impressionable young daughters" probably could use a reality check and stick to worrying about the other teenagers.
Slower adult swimmers do not swim with the age group kids. They stick to the Masters practices. If there is lanespace but no masters coach, they can swim uncoached in an empty lane but don't share a lane with the kids.
In our LSC any meet offering competion for 15-16 year olds must allow any older USAS-registered swimmer to compete as long as they have the qualifying time standards (unless it is a Junior meet for 18&Under). Typically timelines are a problem so it is not typical for slower USMS swimmers to dual-register and make the meets even longer.
In another case, here in Richmond, I was swimming with the Poseidon team and everything was okay for a little while. But the team was renting the pool from a health club (of which I was a member) and the club was concerned about insurance/liability because the team practice began at 4:45am, before the health club opened.
usms members are insured as participants in usas practices.
Great Replies. One can only ask I guess.
Mr. Stevenson: I checked your blog out and I checked out some of your incredible performances. I rather doubt that you obstruct many age group athletes. I suspect that you embarass many, challenge most, and a select few bask in the glory of beating you once in a while. Even these days, with the new turns and the new suits, very few swimmers are going 2:06 and change for a 200 meter back. I know that there is not even one age-group swimmer in the province of Saskatchewan that can go sub 2:08 for a 200 back. You, sir, are no slouch.
The swim moms so worried about their "impressionable young daughters" probably could use a reality check and stick to worrying about the other teenagers.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. The teenaged boys in the workouts are just as "dirty" as any adult. The only difference is there's actually the possibility that the boys will date their daughters! If any adult swimming with age groupers did anything even remotely inappropriate I'm pretty sure the'd be tossed out on their butt very quickly.
Since my current masters team seems unlikely to continue past the summer I've been thinking about where I'll swim next. I've been looking at USA Swimming clubs as a possibility. One thing that concerns me, though, is they are much more expensive.
Our masters team is under the umbrella of an organization with an age group team. Before there was a masters team, a few people worked out with the kids team - one of them had kids on the team. Now that we have a masters team, most folks work out with the masters, but sometimes the kids have a Saturday practice when masters does not, and we are welcome to join the kids practice as long as there is lane space. Many of the age group team parents are masters swimmers and we let some age group swimmers swim our workouts if they need to (have to miss an afternoon practice or want to do doubles). The key is having coaches who understand the needs of both groups and a willingness to make things work. I've swam with the kids and in general, they are pretty positive about having older swimmers in the pool with them. I also coach the age groupers and I don't think it hurts at all for them to see me apply myself in a practice.
--mj
I'm lucky enough to be able to swim with the age group team. I help out coaching the younger kids, but I swim a couple of nights a week and on saturdays with the high school age groups. I mentioned once to the coach about not getting enough long/hard sets with masters. He invited me to swim with them. The kids have been great with it. There is teasing and a bunch of 'old man' coming from them, but I know they don't like getting beat by me. There was a guy at the last meet that was my age, 38, and they were teasing me because I was not swimming in it. I will probably dual register next summer and swim in some meets with them.
usms members are insured as participants in usas practices.
This was brought up to the health club. It didn't matter to them. Their club, their rules, they just didn't like me swimming there before the club opened to regular members.
It all worked out in the end, I think I am happier in my current situation than I would have been in that one.
I rather doubt that you obstruct many age group athletes. I suspect that you embarass many, challenge most, and a select few bask in the glory of beating you once in a while.
Thank you for the kind words. The age group team I occasionally swim with now (NOVA of Virginia) is a real powerhouse, though; I saw that they recently did a "virtual national championship" of club teams in the USA, and NOVA was in the top five. They have girls faster than me in freestyle and butterfly; one of them just crushed me in a 2-mile OW swim.
