Chris..... If you're so convinced of the talent factor overiding the latest crazed rubber suit factor, why not just wear and old Fastskin full body Pro in all your races from now on instead of one of the new rubber wonder suits. You'll save some money..... :-)
In this thread, I have been addressing Paul's statement that the Jakeds are a marked improvement over the LZR and B70s. I do think the suits make a difference, though I think the difference is less than generally believed.
As an aside, I did test the FSII body suit vs (old-style) jammers in a trials/finals meet. No statistical difference despite the prevailing wisdom at the time (this was a couple years ago). I'll grant you that the B70s, LZRs and later suits are an improvement over FSIIs.
Interestingly, my experience in this regard echoes the results at
www.floswimming.org/.../6164-part-iv-predictive-modeling-of-swim-performances-at-the-2008-olympic-games
which are well worth checking out (as is the entire blog). At the end they state
"Essentially, the games in 2000 and 2004 resulted in accurately predicted performances (using the performances swum in previous years to generate the newest model). Our conclusion is that the introduction of the first and second generation of ‘hi tech’ swim suits had no measurable effect upon swim performance. Only three events (out of a possible 52) were judged to be faster than our model predicted seems to validate our approach. However, in 2008, the modeling failed with more than half (17 of 26 events) being faster than predicted using identical methods as before."
I would love to see this sort of study where they analyze the effects of different suit materials and coverages (eg leggings vs full-body). And it would be great if some exercise phys types were tackling the question of cause (eg hydrodynamics, physiological effects of compression, buoyancy) in a systematic manner. Maybe they are and I don't know about it; it isn't an area that I keep up with.
Mr. Stevenson, if you think the suits don't work then don't wear them. Of all the dumb statements made by the likes of Craig Lord, implying that the suit a Blue70 is no better than a training briefs is the dumbest.
I think the suits do work. I just don't know that the Jaked is head and shoulders above its contemporaries, and don't like it when people point to individual swims that support this notion while ignoring others that do not. Or immediately assuming that the latest great swim must be almost entirely due to the suit (in the past, it was usually attributed to doping...in this new tech-suit era, I guess no one dopes anymore).
And yes, I have no plans to buy a Jaked.
the only one who has said that the Jaked has been "proven" to be the fastest suit is you. You have a tendency to marginalize other people's comments by creating strawman arguments. Dispute legitimate claims by attributing ridiculous claims to those who disagree with you...
I'm not sure where the venom is coming from. From what I can tell, the opinion that the Jaked is faster than (say) the LZR is widely held. If you don't like my arguments, then refute them or ignore them, up to you.
Chris..... If you're so convinced of the talent factor overiding the latest crazed rubber suit factor, why not just wear and old Fastskin full body Pro in all your races from now on instead of one of the new rubber wonder suits. You'll save some money..... :-)
In this thread, I have been addressing Paul's statement that the Jakeds are a marked improvement over the LZR and B70s. I do think the suits make a difference, though I think the difference is less than generally believed.
As an aside, I did test the FSII body suit vs (old-style) jammers in a trials/finals meet. No statistical difference despite the prevailing wisdom at the time (this was a couple years ago). I'll grant you that the B70s, LZRs and later suits are an improvement over FSIIs.
Interestingly, my experience in this regard echoes the results at
www.floswimming.org/.../6164-part-iv-predictive-modeling-of-swim-performances-at-the-2008-olympic-games
which are well worth checking out (as is the entire blog). At the end they state
"Essentially, the games in 2000 and 2004 resulted in accurately predicted performances (using the performances swum in previous years to generate the newest model). Our conclusion is that the introduction of the first and second generation of ‘hi tech’ swim suits had no measurable effect upon swim performance. Only three events (out of a possible 52) were judged to be faster than our model predicted seems to validate our approach. However, in 2008, the modeling failed with more than half (17 of 26 events) being faster than predicted using identical methods as before."
I would love to see this sort of study where they analyze the effects of different suit materials and coverages (eg leggings vs full-body). And it would be great if some exercise phys types were tackling the question of cause (eg hydrodynamics, physiological effects of compression, buoyancy) in a systematic manner. Maybe they are and I don't know about it; it isn't an area that I keep up with.
Mr. Stevenson, if you think the suits don't work then don't wear them. Of all the dumb statements made by the likes of Craig Lord, implying that the suit a Blue70 is no better than a training briefs is the dumbest.
I think the suits do work. I just don't know that the Jaked is head and shoulders above its contemporaries, and don't like it when people point to individual swims that support this notion while ignoring others that do not. Or immediately assuming that the latest great swim must be almost entirely due to the suit (in the past, it was usually attributed to doping...in this new tech-suit era, I guess no one dopes anymore).
And yes, I have no plans to buy a Jaked.
the only one who has said that the Jaked has been "proven" to be the fastest suit is you. You have a tendency to marginalize other people's comments by creating strawman arguments. Dispute legitimate claims by attributing ridiculous claims to those who disagree with you...
I'm not sure where the venom is coming from. From what I can tell, the opinion that the Jaked is faster than (say) the LZR is widely held. If you don't like my arguments, then refute them or ignore them, up to you.
