OK - the "Suits" started the whole thing, so you can say that FINA and the manufacturers are responsible for the entire mess. But, there are ways to handle a situation without creating this silly mess. If you ever read Swimnews, the author Craig Lord, basically makes the suits out to be the devil and he is the Spanish inquisition. Why can't they just voice their opinion and then move on for the good of the sport.
Most main stream journallists have no idea about suits, records and all of that - they take their stories from the coaches and swimmers. The more the coaches and swimmers complain the worse the public, non-swimming perception will be - it's that simple. How about just saying - "I would prefer for the suits to changed - but Worlds are swimmer against swimmer - everybody can wear whatever suit they want and they are all available. In the end it comes down to the swimmer not the suit."
Michael Phelps was not world athlete of the year in 2008, not just because of the suits, but because of all the talk about them !
L'Equipe is now banning any record note in their newspaper and I am sure the coverage of Worlds will be terrible. Well - they are French, but it's still a big blow to the sport.
I don't read speed skaters complaining about a new track being the fastest in the world - they can only set records in certain places. I don't see the track cyclists making a huge affair out of a new faster cycling track that allows athletes to blow away all the records. I did not see the outrage when they changed the backstroke turn rule - how much is that in a 200 back ? About a second ? How much faster is allowing a dolphin kick off the wall in *** ? How much faster is allowing in regular Breaststroke to put your head underwater ??
I think there has to be a way to discuss it and not make it take over the sport -- by the way, I am actually against the suits, I would love for them to go back to regular suits. But at the same time, I also embrace new technology, I have a Blue 70 and a LZR.
I did not see the outrage when they changed the backstroke turn rule
Yes, but every example you cited affected all swimmers equally. Not so with the suits--especially when you can't get your hands on a suit that others can. Heck, didn't this happen to you last summer with the LZR?
OK - the "Suits" started the whole thing, so you can say that FINA and the manufacturers are responsible for the entire mess. But, there are ways to handle a situation without creating this silly mess. If you ever read Swimnews, the author Craig Lord, basically makes the suits out to be the devil and he is the Spanish inquisition. Why can't they just voice their opinion and then move on for the good of the sport.
Most main stream journallists have no idea about suits, records and all of that - they take their stories from the coaches and swimmers. The more the coaches and swimmers complain the worse the public, non-swimming perception will be - it's that simple. How about just saying - "I would prefer for the suits to changed - but Worlds are swimmer against swimmer - everybody can wear whatever suit they want and they are all available. In the end it comes down to the swimmer not the suit."
Michael Phelps was not world athlete of the year in 2008, not just because of the suits, but because of all the talk about them !
L'Equipe is now banning any record note in their newspaper and I am sure the coverage of Worlds will be terrible. Well - they are French, but it's still a big blow to the sport.
I don't read speed skaters complaining about a new track being the fastest in the world - they can only set records in certain places. I don't see the track cyclists making a huge affair out of a new faster cycling track that allows athletes to blow away all the records. I did not see the outrage when they changed the backstroke turn rule - how much is that in a 200 back ? About a second ? How much faster is allowing a dolphin kick off the wall in *** ? How much faster is allowing in regular Breaststroke to put your head underwater ??
I think there has to be a way to discuss it and not make it take over the sport -- by the way, I am actually against the suits, I would love for them to go back to regular suits. But at the same time, I also embrace new technology, I have a Blue 70 and a LZR.
The French always take a pounding on this forum ...
The response is far worse. I'm inclined to think FINA should have drawn the line at LZR/B70 and not approved the Jaked, X-Glide and other uber combo suits ... at least not so hastily and in the absence of valid scientific analysis. The Jaked seemed to have really kicked off a furor.
I thought Phelps and those under Speedo contracts had to wear LZR at Worlds even though it's slower than these other suits? Not so? And didn't Mr. Lord-Savonarola assert that the uber suits would not be available to all because manufacturing may lag behind demand?
I thought Phelps and those under Speedo contracts had to wear LZR at Worlds even though it's slower than these other suits? Not so?
I would assume this depends on the wording of their contracts. Yes, one would think they'd be required to wear Speedo suits in competition. Hard to really say "no fair" about this, though. Nobody's making them take the money from Speedo, TYR or whoever they're endorsing.
The response is far worse. I'm inclined to think FINA should have drawn the line at LZR/B70 and not approved the Jaked, X-Glide and other uber combo suits ... at least not so hastily and in the absence of valid scientific analysis. The Jaked seemed to have really kicked off a furor.
I agree that the response is terrible but I wonder if reasoning like this "line drawing" business is part of the reason. Here is my own guess at what happened.
FINA made up these thickness and buoyancy numbers and added some vague language about air trapping.
But some people -- possibly including the testers themselves? -- didn't like the fact that the "almost completely impermeable suits" like Jaked and B70 passed the thickness/buoyancy tests. So they decided to use the air trapping thing to eliminate them, somewhat subjectively.
Unfortunately it was an argument that probably couldn't hold water (pun intended) in court and so they backed off.
I have a strong intuition that material permeability is only very weakly related to the ability of a suit to trap air. Much more important is the cut of the suit. The reason: I believe that air diffusion through the suit itself is pretty slow even for "permeable" materials like lycra, compared to egress by other means. (Verify for yourself if you like...a crude experiment involves a volunteer and a bowl of beans...)
Generally, I believe trapped air will be displaced by water if it has an easy way to leave the suit...generally not through the material itself, however. Jammers (of any material) will trap the least air, followed by leggings, followed by body suits.
The long, probably expensive "pseudo-scientific" screening method has been farcical. What they need are a small number of simple tests following well-established and public guidelines. (Personally I like the idea of testing thickness & buoyancy.) Then limit the suit coverage (knees to navel for men, pelvis-neck for women works for me) and step back. Suit makers would have simple and predictable guidelines to follow.
The whole "permeability" thing is a red herring. Are they worried about buoyancy? Then test for that. Are they worried instead about some vague "contact with the water" thing? Go contemplate your navel and stop wasting our time.
Generally, I believe trapped air will be displaced by water if it has an easy way to leave the suit...generally not through the material itself, however.
The whole "permeability" thing is a red herring. Are they worried about buoyancy? Then test for that. Are they worried instead about some vague "contact with the water" thing? Go contemplate your navel and stop wasting our time.
I'm against limiting suit coverage. I dislike tanks, and don't see why we should be forced to go back to them. I likewise see no reason why we as consumers should have to wear tech suits that rip easily and blow apart.
I do, however, agree that permeability and air trapping is a red herring and waste of time. Unfortunately, it appears that the manufacturers have now moved forward with designing, manufacturing and selling suits that attempt to meet the 2010 guidelines regarding permeability (e.g., Rocket Science Sprinter suit and new B70 suit). These suits will look increasingly LZR-ish with patchworks of permeable material and neoprene material and arrays of holes at key places. If FINA was under pressure to "move inventory" of the previous versions, won't it now be under pressure to permit these versions that were developed in response to their professed guidelines for 2010?
What they need are a small number of simple tests following well-established and public guidelines. (Personally I like the idea of testing thickness & buoyancy.) Then limit the suit coverage (knees to navel for men, pelvis-neck for women works for me) and step back. Suit makers would have simple and predictable guidelines to follow.
Agree 100%. Every rule must be clearcut and testable. Otherwise they're open to interpretation and subjectivity kicks in. Tell the manufacturers exactly what the rules are and I don't think they will have a problem following them.
You are quite correct - but I am talking about the elite for Worlds and the press -- at Worlds I think we can assume that every medal contender will be able to wear any allowed suit.
Not necessarily. Check out this excellent and eye opening interview with Brett Hawke.
www.floswimming.org/.../188928-suit-stress
You are quite correct - but I am talking about the elite for Worlds and the press -- at Worlds I think we can assume that every medal contender will be able to wear any allowed suit. I also think the - different suits affect people in a different way is overblown. I am sure the backstroke rule affected some people more than others -- some people already did a version of the new turn before it was allowed.
Swimming is a small sport - you can not allow something like the suits to take over the sport -- ok, outlaw them through a Coaches resolution and all of that - but right now, everybody should be talking about Phelps going under 50 or trying to guess his events next month.
Not necessarily. Check out this excellent and eye opening interview with Brett Hawke.
That interview explains Auburn's use of Jaked suits at NCAAs! Wear the fastest suit, take advantage of lack of availability to competitors when possible, and win. Kill or be killed.
I would love to go back to a more level playing field, but let's face the fact that the suits are here to stay and for all the short-term inequities the right swimmers usually end up winning and setting the records eventually.
Tim
I like the suits because to wear them:
is like shaving down without shaving down
is like slimming down without slimming down
I guess that's why they are so popular with (us) fat, hairy old guys.
Maybe only fat, hairy old guys should be allowed to use them. Would that satisfy everyone?
