Proper Etiquette in this situation

First of all... if you're going 5 seconds apart, you're drafting, period. There is no way to not draft if you're only 5 seconds behind someone. If the person in front of me starts missing sendoffs, and I'm still making the sendoffs, then I just keep going on my sendoff. The person in front of me should yield, and try to squeeze in behind. If the sendoff allows, I'll try to bump up a spot. But if I'm touch-and-go, I'm not going to move up. The real answer here is "it depends". It depends on everything... the personalities and talents of the other people in the lane, etc. -Rick

I think you're fine staying behind unless he tells you to take over. When I'm in this position I find it annoying that someone is right on my tail, but it also motivates me to keep going. At the point where I feel like I'm holding that person up I'll stop and let them pass.

5 seconds apart is pretty normal in my practices and in my region. At The age group practices that I did recently, we had to go 5 seconds apart because a one of the top swimmers in the country is leading the lane. He will lap people if everyone went 10 seconds apart and in LCM if given the chance. The guy should have maybe thought that it was time to go second or was too stubborn to admit he had nothing left. If you were too tired to pass him, cut into the next lap and get in front of him that way. I had that done recently and frankly, I was struggling so I didn't mind. But, when people start to touch my feet, I know that is the time to let someone go ahead of me. Maybe have a discussion before hand about what to do if the lead person can't lead anymore.

Pass, pure and simple. Even if you don't end up doing any better than him, you need to take the initiative to try. If I were leading the lane I'd be more pissed that you just hung at my ankles than trying to lead. It doesn't help anyone if you stay back. Push yourself and the folks you swim with.:cheerleader: FYI....5 seconds apart is ridiculous. The only time I ever did that would be in a meet warmup situation. 5 seconds encourages drafting. I suppose the team numbers dictates that, but still. If you are LCM then you should be able to go 10 sec apart.

However, what do you do in this practice situation? You are swimming 2nd in the lane. Boy in front of you starts missing the intervals during the last 25% of the set. He's done a great job of leading the lane until this point. You catch up to him as your entire lane is now missing the intervals However, you are not sure you can/ should pass him. Should I have tried to pass even though we were at the tail end of the set (and passing would be a heck of a chore as we were all pretty dead)? Stayed on his feet as the set is almost over? Waited another 5 seconds but then having other people on my feet? No one else was really on my feet as we had sort of put some distance between us and the rest of the lane. I sort of feel if the lane leader misses the send offs that it's more of a touch and go/ anything goes/ fend for yourself scenario. Thanks! I run into this practically every time I train with our local Masters group. As the leader. I have one woman that trains with me that is really very talented. She was a wunderkind when she was a teen-ager and really has not aged much since then. She is also extremely competitive. We train in a crowded 25 meter pool, so 5 seconds apart is practically required. She almost never goes lead off despite the fact she can keep up and kick my ass most days. Her typical pattern is to go slightly less than 5 apart, then drop on your feet at about the 50 meter mark and hang on for the entire set. Is she drafting? Of course. Does is matter to me? Sometimes. As the leader (I share it with another guy who, despite only training sporadically, can kick it into high gear anytime he chooses and burn by me) I ignore her competitive training most of the time. Sometimes I feel crowded and, if I can, I just turn it up a notch and pull away. If I have nothing in the tank (like I tend to as my blood glucose bottoms out if I skip eating before training), I am more than happy to drop out and let her buzz by. That is what I think should happen. Its just one rep of one set of one work-out in a long line of sessions. I think you should have just stuck to YOUR pace time and let him decide to drop back on his own or put up with you barking at his feet. If he drops back, then he will likely get that five more seconds of rest he needs to regain his form while you get bragging rights to completing the set. If he stays in front and starts to become road kill, then you need to just keep on tapping at the door until he figures out that he needs to drop back. Otherwise he is the guy failing to have proper etiquette. I do not believe passing in mid pool is ever a good bet: you will blow yourself out to get by, then you will start missing the set because you screwed up your pace. Those short rest sets are all about setting a pace and staying in the groove. If you start trying to sprint in mid pool, I cannot think of a better way of destroying your groove.

Given that situation, with the two of you out in front of the rest of the lane, if you can make the interval, you should take the lead. This will give the current leader a small break, and a small draft, and he might be able to pull off the rest of the set. If you can't make the interval, and you are dying as badly as he is, passing will only cause you to crash. If you pass then crash and get run over, there was no benefit and a lot of harm. If you can't muster the extra energy to pass, and you are not where near his feet, then stick with your new interval. You are a girl, and he is a boy, so lane etiquette favors whatever you decide to do, as long as you are not a total ***** about it.

Thanks for all the thoughts! Wow! There are just so many possibilities here! I think I've done and/ or at least thought all of these things at some point depending on the situation as Osterber mentioned. To clarify a few things: Often, the coaches dictate to us if we are to leave 5 or 10 seconds. Sometimes, due to high lane volume (even LCM) we are told to leave 5 back even on things for time. Typically, the very strong boys (and some girls) lead the lane. I think in the future, if space is available I will leave 10 back. I can absolutely feel draft with 5 seconds back (whether I am leading - drag- or following - free ride). HOWEVER, I feel for the kids in the back of the lane (let's say 10 to 12 of us are in a lane LCM). Being someone that has had to go last in the past, it's very stressful having even a few people leave 10 back b/c you are almost caught by the first person before you even begin! Think about 100 pace on 1:15 and do the math. Sometimes I'll ask the person in front of me if they want me to leave 5 or 10 back. I've had "I don't care. Whatever you want to do." And often I will be told that "we are leaving 10 back." :angel: So it's useful to clarify things up front. I did not do this with the lane leader today as he usually creams me. This young man (16) is VERY polite with me (and even calls me Miss Kristina) so I really want to do what is considerate. Sounds like some upfront clarification prior to the set beginning is a good place to start. Thanks again!

Kristina - Rather than leave later, ask if he would like you to move up. It may help motivate him in either response he makes, and you will have an opportunity to push yourself through clear water for a change (rather than slipstreaming).

Redbird, makes a lot of sense. On this (looong) set, there was not time for any words. We were all touch and go. I'm not sure how realistic it is for a 36 year old woman to lead a lane during a USA-S National practice, but I will certainly start thinking about it if my body can hold up! :D Puff - your age and the group shouldn't make a bit of difference on whether you lead or not. :) It's all about how others are swimming and how you are doing that day. I also swim with USA-S team and I've lead on many occasions at 38. I dare them to keep up with me.:bolt:

Kristina - Rather than leave later, ask if he would like you to move up. It may help motivate him in either response he makes, and you will have an opportunity to push yourself through clear water for a change (rather than slipstreaming). Quicksilver, #1 option you listed was great and I used that effectively a few days prior b/c there was time between repeats to ask how this guy (another one) was doing. As I suspected, he had a bad shoulder that day and I went ahead of him. Redbird, makes a lot of sense. On this (looong) set, there was not time for any words. We were all touch and go. I'm not sure how realistic it is for a 36 year old woman to lead a lane during a USA-S National practice, but I will certainly start thinking about it if my body can hold up! :D