All the announcements that are flying around about this, that or the other thing, being legal, maybe allowed and not legal, have not helped clarify anything to me. I read the latest USMS release as:
a) we'll follow whatever FINA says, but
b) later says that we can wear whatever we want despite FINA's ruling.
Very confusing- are we following FINA or not?
As a Meet Director, I find this to be a huge problem, especially as it relates to blueSeventy suits. I am sure that there will be plenty of people wearing/wanting to wear b70s while swimming in the meet I am hosting on June 21, just after the next FINA deadline and I would like to know what I should be telling our participants to wear (or not wear), and what our officials should be allowing or disallowing.
Considering b70's level of sponsorship and the prevalence of their suits at USMS meets over the last year, I think it would be prudent for the Rules Committee to release a statement citing this particular company's suits in their examples. It would greatly help me out.
I would be asking USMS directly, not posting on a public forum. This will turn out like one of the many threads on here displaying several interpretations of the rules and confusing you further.
The question and answer should be simple.........
Q: Is the B70 Nero Comp (or list other controversial suit) legal to use in my meet on 21st June?
A: YES (or NO)
:confused:
Dolf, you have a point about asking USMS directly, and I have done so separately, but my point is that as a meet director, I am confused as to how to direct my participants. It would be my hope that the Rob's and/or Kathy Casey will weigh in. There are plenty of other meet directors who browse/participate in these forums who could benefit from this, not just me.
Thankfully, I think this all has created a situation where there will be more folks that take the brief/tank route like Señor Wolf has professed and I won't have to worry about it too much.
As a meet director I always felt that it was my job to organize the meet and make sure it ran smoothly but I don't think it's my job to interpret or enforce USMS rules. That said, of course the meet director is the first person that most people approach when they have a question or complaint ("Where do I park?", "I'm not in the right heat!", or "Can I wear my B70?"). If it were me and people were asking me what suit they're allowed to wear at the meet I'd direct them to the referee. Just in the same way I would if they come up and ask if they're allowed to do a fly kick on the *** pullout or something. If it were before the meet and someone was asking me I'd probably forward them to the USMS site and/or the LMSC officials. I don't believe it would be up to me to make a decision on what suits are legal or not for my meet. Just as it's the swimmers' and coaches' responsibility to know the rules for swimming a stroke it's their responsibility to know what suit they're allowed to wear. Unfortunately the confusion around this matter right now is a problem, especially since your meet is coming up. And as you know you'll probably need to deal with it on some level. Just be careful, it'll be a dangerous slope to be on if you're advising people what they can or can't wear.
But that's just my understanding of it, I could be wrong on the duties/powers associated with running a meet.
Thankfully, I think this all has created a situation where there will be more folks that take the brief/tank route like Señor Wolf has professed and I won't have to worry about it too much.
Um.. have you seen Wolf in a brief lately? I'd be worried. Very worried.
Dolf, you have a point about asking USMS directly, and I have done so separately, but my point is that as a meet director, I am confused as to how to direct my participants. It would be my hope that the Rob's and/or Kathy Casey will weigh in. There are plenty of other meet directors who browse/participate in these forums who could benefit from this, not just me.
Thankfully, I think this all has created a situation where there will be more folks that take the brief/tank route like Señor Wolf has professed and I won't have to worry about it too much.
Muppet,
I think it's clear. Under official USMS policy, B70s are legal in masters meets and for masters ranking purposes. The only lack of clarity is wrt FINA rankings and records in light of the current "don't ask, don't tell" policy. That could change on June 19 when FINA issues it's new list. But I'm not sure how quickly USMS will act after that announcement ... Also, if the list is really final and B70 is still excluded after further testing, and there is no rationalization about "continued testing," it's hard to see how the suit would be legal then. But I guess USMS theoretically could still say the suits were good until the end of the year.
However, with that said and as a notorious B70 user you'll be on the look out for, I intend to be in a FINA approved suit. I just don't know which one yet. :D
If I were meet director my message about suits for your USMS meet would be:
Blue Seventy Nero Comp Suits and other suits that aren't on FINA 2009 List of Approved Swimsuits may or may not be legal in our meet starting on Friday June 19th.
We are waiting for FINA to issue their ruling on the 136 suits which are being retested. FINA's last press release said it would be announced by Friday June 19th, 2009.
USMS is likely to issue a ruling shortly after FINA does.
If USMS does not issue their determination during the meet, then USMS's current position applies. Also realize FINA's position is different from USMS, if you feel you could break a world record or swim a time that could be in FINAs top 10 in the world list, to be safe, you might want to wear a suit that is on FINA 2009 List of Approved Swimsuits .
Swimmers, if you have a Blue Seventy Nero Comp suit, I suggest you bring it to our meet, but also bring back up suits incase B70's are banned.
Links to all the announcements on Suit Legality
USMS's most recent comment on which suits are legal.
NOTICE TO ALL U. S. MASTERS SWIMMING MEMBERS
The following U.S. Masters Swimming’s official interpretation of Swimwear rule 102.14 was published March 26, 2009. These USMS interpretations have not changed and will remain in place until further notice. While USA Swimming chose to modify their rules, U.S. Masters Swimming has chosen to maintain its rules and interpretation until FINA has completed its processes and informed us of its interpretation as it applies to Masters Swimming. While our policy remains unchanged during this interim period, there is new information in the questions and answers following the interpretations.
#1. USMS SWIMWEAR INTERPRETATION
FINA approval or rejection of new swimsuits introduced after September 30, 2007, will be accepted by U.S. Masters Swimming for USMS sanctioned and recognized competition.
The following interpretation regarding the use of two suits during competition was also published March 26, 2009.
#2. USMS SWIMWEAR INTERPRETATION
For purposes of Article 102.14 of U.S. Masters Swimming Rules of Competition, Swimwear, the use of more than one swimsuit at a time during any USMS sanctioned or recognized competition is prohibited.
QUESTIONS & ANSWERS:
1. Question: Can I wear a regular racing suit that is not a body suit?
Answer: Yes, suits introduced prior to September 30, 2007, are legal for U.S.M.S. competition.
2. Question: Can I still wear my LZR or TYR Tracer at meets including long course meters meets?
Answer: Yes, because at least some of the LZR and the TYR Tracer models are on the new list of FINA-approved suits that was published May 19, 2009, and none of these suits are on the not-approved list. All LZR and TYR suits are legal at least until the retesting is completed. (We have not seen the official list of suits being retested, so we don’t know if there are models of these suits included.)
3. Question: Why don’t I see the new suit I bought on the new list of FINA-approved suits?
Answer: There are 136 suits that are currently being retested by FINA. The target date for those results is June 19, 2009. The suits are being retested under the new system for buoyancy (no more than 1 Newton), material (no thicker than 1 mm), and construction (no trapping of air), just to mention a few criteria. At the point of publication of those results, the USMS Rules Committee will consider those test results.
4. Question: How will this impact Masters competitors?
Answer: That suit you bought after September 30, 2007, is legal at this moment, but it could be reconsidered by the USMS Rules Committee after the next FINA-approved swimsuit list is published. Regardless of the upcoming new list, that old Fastskin or similar suit that you have will be legal since it was introduced prior to September 30, 2007.
5. Question: My coach is forcing me to swim the 1650 Free as a training swim. Can I wear a drag suit over my jammers?
Answer: No. Although wearing an extra drag suit may not be perceived as having an advantage, the interpretation is that only one swimsuit is permitted.
6. Question: Does “one suit for competition” mean I can only wear one suit for the whole meet?
Answer: No. You can change suits during the meet, but you can only wear one suit at a time. This restriction applies only to the actual races (competition). You can wear more than one suit during warm-up and warm-down. This restriction applies to all types, makes, and models of swim suits, but it is not intended to apply to athletic supporters or modesty type wear (a single pair of “briefs” or “bikini bottoms or top” or a sports bra worn to ensure modesty and privacy).
Feel free to contact me with any questions.
Kathy Casey, Chair
U.S. Masters Swimming Rules Committee
rules@usms.org
Ande
Maybe there should be a USMS rule change about Paul wearing a brief!
Muppet might advice people at the meet to pretend they are viewing a solar eclipse, so they dont look directly at wolf.
2. Question: Can I still wear my LZR or TYR Tracer at meets including long course meters meets?
Answer: Yes, because at least some of the LZR and the TYR Tracer models are on the new list of FINA-approved suits that was published May 19, 2009, and none of these suits are on the not-approved list. All LZR and TYR suits are legal at least until the retesting is completed. (We have not seen the official list of suits being retested, so we don’t know if there are models of these suits included.)
See, this is the confusing part. Why no mention of blueseventy? No blueseventy suit is on the approved list, so does that make them illegal? As for the "not approved" list, has anyone actually seen this? Supposedly ten suits were flat-out rejected, but I haven't seen anything that actually lists what these ten were.
As a Meet Director, I find this to be a huge problem...
The good news is that the meet director has no jurisdiction in swimwear. So that problem is solved for you! However the meet referee does have swimwear jurisdiction and should be the person who understands our rules. Does your referee understand our rules?
And while I can’t predict what FINA will do between now and the day of your meet, assuming nothing changes, suits on the retest list are legal at USMS sanctioned events.
With regard to your specific question about the Nero Comp – I have been informed from B70 that the Nero is on the retest list, therefore USMS considers this suit to be legal, TODAY.
The good news is that the meet director has no jurisdiction in swimwear. So that problem is solved for you! However the meet referee does have swimwear jurisdiction and should be the person who understands our rules. Does your referee understand our rules?
And while I can’t predict what FINA will do between now and the day of your meet, assuming nothing changes, suits on the retest list are legal at USMS sanctioned events.
With regard to your specific question about the Nero Comp – I have been informed from B70 that the Nero is on the retest list, therefore USMS considers this suit to be legal, TODAY.
THANK YOU.As I said I don't agree with this decision as it may lead to complaints about WRs and I do think if one is interested in WRs/ FINA TT one should wear an undeniably legal suit,but at least it is a decision and I respect that.
