Ok, here goes. New here, so hello everyone. Not very new to swimming, though I feel like I am today. I swam from 5 & unders through high school. Then I ignored my body for 20 years, drank lots of bad things (not in a dangerous way), ate lots of bad things, exercised maybe 10 times per year, yes "year", got married, got lazy, blah blah...you've heard this before. Now have two small children and suddenly realized that I'd love to see them grow up, so I made up my mind to get back in shape. Swimming was always my first love exercise/wise...sooo.
Flash forward to November, 2007. 18 months or so ago, give or take. Started with 1000 yards, just swam them, no sets, no breaks, just wind and grind. Moved on to a mile. Still swimming the whole way, no breaks, but determined to get that mile under 30 mins. Did that by April or so of last year. Didn't really know what to try next so I just started adding laps. Pushed on to 2000, 2500, then 3k, STILL just grinding them out. There's nothing cerebral about this swimming stuff, right? You either swim or you don't. So I thought... Oh, I got pretty fast too, not "you guys" fast, but fast at my pool, beating (silently competing with every human that entered the pool, is that normal?) all but a very small few of the other swimmers. Then stupidly, I started reading about swimming. Uh oh...appears I'm using the wrong approach. But I'd alreayd put on so much lean muscle, lost sooooooo much fat, dropped 37 lbs, lost my man-boobs that were oh so attractive to the ladies.... How could this be the wrong way to do it?
Enter sets: Fall, 2008. Ahhh, sets. (4) 500's on 9 minutes with about 2 minutes rest, followed by (5) 100's on 1.5 mins, and (10) 50's on a minute. It didn't start off that way, but nearly and now that's pretty much my routine. Yes, I know I should be swimming other strokes, I'm not. *** stroke was always my best, but I'm vanity-swimming now, and I have no time for that. So that's my routine...
Enter mechanics: Uh oh...appears that I've been swimming the wrong way now...all this time. Darn You Tube and the TI stuff! So I read Total Immersion. Ugh. I'm the worst swimmer of all time apparantly. Alright, so now I'm working on my mechanics. I'm waiting to start my stroke as my recovery arm is just about to enter the water. I'm keeping a high elbow catch. I'm "skulling" from side to side and stretching my lead arm as best as I can (keeping the vessel long). I'm also about to drown! Granted, I'm really new to this (3 sessions of trying it out), but my times are awful, and I'm winded as can be using this stuff. I think I'm kicking my fanny off trying to keep this up and those old big leg muscles are zapping my O2 supply. Now, my first couple of laps in the 500 are nice and smooth, but I break down into some kind of wounded dog paddle after that.
Questions:
1) Is any of this normal, or are y'all so seasoned and good at this stuff that you're past being able to answer these elementary questions?? I'm not being smart here, I picture you guys sitting there in your dens with your lycra caps on thinking "what's he talking about?? Can't he swim at all?"
2) Will it get better? Should I just give it up and go back to my old style? I've added a smooth 15 seconds to my 100 time!!! Uh, that's not congruent with my vanity-swim. I got grandmothers lapping me in the 100!!
3) Am I doing something wrong and do I need to do some kind of funky front-quadrant drill to make this go easier? Like I said, I can feel it sometimes. But this feeling is brief.
So I just feel like I've given up a lot to pursue this stroke and I'm worried that I've lost my speed (what speed there was) and will never get it back. If someone will tell me to stick with it, I will. But at this point, I'm on the edge of pursuing a different route - like pilates or spinning...
Blue
Former Member
If it were me, I would try and join a nearby team. It's really hard to answer a lot of your questions without knowing much about you or watching you swim (although you did say you were an age grouper and swam in high school). I also read a lot of posts on here where people reference videos and books about how to swim. I can't imagine trying to improve my technique by watching youtube videos and reading books. If you can't join a team and are stuck training by yourself, then you're pretty much on your own. A good example of this would be trying to teach myself ballet (which I know nothing about) by watching youtube videos and checking out books from the local library--it just won't work for me.
Also, if you're training on your own, I would just do whatever works best. I wouldn't overthink, analyze, and dissect my stroke. Keep on swimming and keep improving your physical health. However, if you want to get serious about technique, then you will eventually have to join a team or get a coach.
Former Member
First of all, congratulation on the weight loss and your decision to get fit again! :applaud:
Secondly, adding spinning and/or pilates to your routine would not be a bad thing at all. Whether your primary goal is fitness or competition you should supplement your swimming routine with some type of cross-training. Spinning will help you get leaner and work those legs like crazy. Pilates is excellent core exercise and will enhance your flexibility.
Finally, DO NOT GIVE UP on the swimming. It really sounds like you've gotten into a rut. We all plateau at some point in our training. Working through it can be frustrating, but you will get past it--if you work to do so.
Honestly, it sounds like you really need to change your routine in the pool. Building up your endurance is good. Using sets to build your speed and push yourself harder than the distance swim is also good. Doing the same thing everytime you hit the water is not.
My recommendation is throw away the TI book and join a masters team. Go to a TI clinic if you want to learn TI techniques, but as a former age-group swimmer you're probably past what they are teaching to beginners.
Find a masters team in your area and join the group practice 2-3 times per week. Your workouts will be different every day, and you will have a coach and team mates to help you with stroke mechanics. If you're "secretly" racing the lap swimmers, you'll enjoy the team workout dynamic and there will be plenty of people on the team to "race" during practice.
Blue, I know what you're talking about. I have a similar swimming background (age group and 1 year high school swimming), similar hiatus (27 years or so), similar ambition to lose weight and get back in shape (I saw a picture from a vacation in Mexico in which I looked suspiciously like a 46 year old fat, out of shape old man), similar go it on my own for a while mentality, similar "races" with 93 year old noodlers in adjacent lanes, and similar perceived schedule conflicts (possibly exaggerated as a result of my reluctance/fear to join the team environment).
I did a lot of reading, watching, lurking here, and stroke tweaking on my own for a while and yes, I slowed down initially. I did start cribbing workouts from here and doing them (well, mostly doing them), instead of trying to make stuff up on my own. I started trying to learn fly, something I had never learned as a kid.
Finally, after almost a year of solo dweebing and noodler racing, I screwed up my courage and showed up at masters team practice at 6 one September morning a few years ago. In my Phelpsian fantasy world of out-touching 93 year olds at the finish of the 100 fly, I was sure I would be the fastest thing the team had ever seen. No doubt articles would be written about my unique, self-taught training methods which had gotten me to this point; men would weep and women would swoon at my swimming prowess.
Of course I promptly got my *** handed to me. My lanemates would look at me with pity as I lay weeping quietly in the gutter in those early days. "It gets better, really!" one sweet young thing would chirp, before blasting off on another "recovery" 100 -- which was about 15 seconds faster than my all-out sprint. But through the pain and humiliation (the latter being self-induced. Masters swimmers are the nicest people you will ever meet) I knew this was what my swimming needed.
By that November I had signed up for my first meet since high school; within a couple of years I went to my first Nationals and have been to a few since. Through it all, I kept showing up at 6, and the sweet young thing was right -- it does get better. Friends kept asking what I had done to my body, I got faster, the technique stuff began to make more sense, fellow team members were hugely encouraging and held me accountable, and most of all it's a whole bunch of fun.
I am lucky to have an incredible, active, competitive team and a great pool. We have coaches who actually coach the workouts (no whiteboards), technique clinics and video sessions, socials, plenty of willing participants for meets and relays, and a great group of folks to hang out with.
Give your team a try. It worked for me.
I may not have any words of wisdom to offer you, but I do congratulate you on your decision to make a lifestyle change and do something good for yourself and your family.:) I say keep on working hard- it is the example that you set to your children by being active that will make the greatest impact.
Blue,
First - good for you for taking things by the horns. Your story sounds oh so familiar - HS & College swimmer, took 25 years off, found myself at 250 plus - no man boobs thankfully - 2 young kids want to see them get old. Got back in the water regularly last spring and then with more intensity in the summer (outside, 5 am, sun just rising, warm, can't beat it). Mechanics all off but like you said you grind it out. I'm down 44 lbs and I just went to my first meet in 25 years and did ok.
Keep plugging, know that years of rust do not come off easily, but you keep pushing and you work on small groups of things - work on repeating sets and fitness - then you tweak your stroke - then your turns. I was a basket case with the new style (for me) backstroke flip turns but I did about 100 of them over the past few months and I'm closer to getting it down right. Times will drop and then level off and drop again - it is what it is, but you will improve and get faster.
Read Ande's Swim Faster Faster tips - take a few and work them into your routine - they work because they change your attitude and mental state as well as your physical approach to swimming. I was never much of a technician early on - I just could swim and didn't know what I did was right or wrong - but as I gotten more fit I can spend time working on arm position, or breathing angles, or my personal favorite the underwater dolphin kicks -because I'm more fit and things start becoming automatic.
So keep going - change the routines and workouts - poach some the workouts from this site, follow these discussion forums there are lots of great litttle tips and suggestions -it's a gold mine. It gets better and it gets good, real good.
Enjoy each successful day, you are better off now than when you started back in 2007. Do what works for you but keep doing the work.
Former Member
If it were me, I would try and join a nearby team. It's really hard to answer a lot of your questions without knowing much about you or watching you swim (although you did say you were an age grouper and swam in high school). I also read a lot of posts on here where people reference videos and books about how to swim. I can't imagine trying to improve my technique by watching youtube videos and reading books. If you can't join a team and are stuck training by yourself, then you're pretty much on your own. A good example of this would be trying to teach myself ballet (which I know nothing about) by watching youtube videos and checking out books from the local library--it just won't work for me.
Also, if you're training on your own, I would just do whatever works best. I wouldn't overthink, analyze, and dissect my stroke. Keep on swimming and keep improving your physical health. However, if you want to get serious about technique, then you will eventually have to join a team or get a coach.
Thanks ABC, and I hear you. We have a Masters group that meets in the mornings on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. My work conflicts with that a bit, though my starting work at 6:00 is a choice, not a requirement. So, I'm considering adjusting my schedule to fit this in. I'm not exactly trying to learn by book or video, but I am trying to use the same strokes that the guys on TV use, or similar. I am sure that I have some bad form that needs adjusting, and am trying to improve. I guess I have reached a plateau of some kind and looking for some new challenge. I just need to know if tweaking your stroke will slow you down before it speeds you up. And what I've been a little embarrassed to admit is that I'd like to start swimming competitively again, and I'm worried that my current form (the form I've used all my life) will limit my top potential speed. So, I'm tweaking it now in hopes that it will help me go faster in the long run.
Blue
Former Member
It doesn't take that long to get in the groove of meeting with the team. It is amazing how quickly the body will get up and go to the pool once you give it a chance. If it doesn't gel it won't be for you. The only way to know is get up and go. My wish is for you to try the team and understand if it is meant to be it is meant to be. I will say it one more time because I know how thick I was about trying a team. Give it a go..go...go!
Former Member
My situation is similar to BillS above; I'm just two years (?) older.
First of all, you will improve if you continue.
I would forget the TI stuff. Get someone to video tape you swim so you can see what your stroke really looks like. I would much rather compare myself to the videos on Youtube for Alex Popov, Ian Thorpe, etc. than the front quadrant style of TI.
I think one thing you should do immediately is add variety to your workouts.
Your 4x500 set could be replaced with 2000 yards of many other sets.
I suggest for starters making your main set once a week a series that allows you to compare performance over time.
16 x 100 (20 secs rest)
or
8 x 200 (40 secs rest)
or
32 x 50 (10 secs rest)
I think 2 minutes is a lot of rest, but because you are swimming 500s you might want that much. Shorten the distance and the rest.
If you used to swim breaststroke - once a week swim some. It can be more demanding than freestyle if you don't swim it like a leisure stroke.
Former Member
Man, I'm a bit overwhelmed with all of the great advice and friendliness! Thanks so much guys. I'm taking the following away from your tips:
1) Keep at it!!! I hope I didn't give the impression that I was about to throw in the towel altogether. I'm not. I'm very very committed, I meant that I might throw in the towel on the TI stuff. Which I'm also hearing. And I had a great session today, after I wrote the original post, so I'm feeling a bit more confident!
2) Join the Masters deal. Don't be intimidated. Ok listen to me, I will trust you people that I don't know and try it. I have to travel for work until Friday, so I will try it asap. I'm not blowing it off, I have to go to Mobile, Al tomorrow. I'm trusting y'all on this one.
3) Vary my workout! Yeah, I kinda knew I was gonna catch a little on this one. I tend to go to restaurants, find something I like, and never try the other dishes there, ever. I like what I like and am scared that if I order something I do not like, then I've wasted my time and should have ordered what I already knew I liked... All of the books that I've read have had this one thing in common-the varied sets thing. Some people actually have the nerve to call me stubborn, I know you're shocked.
4) At the very least, I'm doing myself and family some good by being in the water. This is very true, more than you know. What actually prompted me to start and stick with it this time was a bad physical in the summer of 2007. The doctor said I was overweight, and my blood pressure was 115/85 or something. I've never had my lower number get above the low low 70's. He said something about "pre-hypertensive" and that was all I needed to hear. I started swimming a month later after trying to run a bit. I took my BP every week for over a year. My average has now dropped to 105/73 with several that were under 100 on the high number and under 70 on the low number. It still is trending downward. I'm not doctor, but I think this is a good thing. The weight has also dropped off. Went from a delicate 6'3" 244 lbs, to 207. I also eat right now, with the occasional food orgy.
So thank you so much for all of the free advice. I will do what you all seem to agree are the right things. I hope I didn't give the impression that I'm not at all good. In my current workout that you all suggest I change up a bit, I do :30 50's, 1:05 100's, and try to average 7:00 on the 500's. Surely I can handle the masters thing as a beginner with that, right? Maybe I am a little intimidated... I won't get trampled/drowned at one of these things will I????
Blue
Man, I'm a bit overwhelmed with all of the great advice and friendliness! Thanks so much guys. I'm taking the following away from your tips:
1) Keep at it!!! I hope I didn't give the impression that I was about to throw in the towel altogether. I'm not. I'm very very committed, I meant that I might throw in the towel on the TI stuff. Which I'm also hearing. And I had a great session today, after I wrote the original post, so I'm feeling a bit more confident!
2) Join the Masters deal. Don't be intimidated. Ok listen to me, I will trust you people that I don't know and try it. I have to travel for work until Friday, so I will try it asap. I'm not blowing it off, I have to go to Mobile, Al tomorrow. I'm trusting y'all on this one.
3) Vary my workout! Yeah, I kinda knew I was gonna catch a little on this one. I tend to go to restaurants, find something I like, and never try the other dishes there, ever. I like what I like and am scared that if I order something I do not like, then I've wasted my time and should have ordered what I already knew I liked... All of the books that I've read have had this one thing in common-the varied sets thing. Some people actually have the nerve to call me stubborn, I know you're shocked.
4) At the very least, I'm doing myself and family some good by being in the water. This is very true, more than you know. What actually prompted me to start and stick with it this time was a bad physical in the summer of 2007. The doctor said I was overweight, and my blood pressure was 115/85 or something. I've never had my lower number get above the low low 70's. He said something about "pre-hypertensive" and that was all I needed to hear. I started swimming a month later after trying to run a bit. I took my BP every week for over a year. My average has now dropped to 105/73 with several that were under 100 on the high number and under 70 on the low number. It still is trending downward. I'm not doctor, but I think this is a good thing. The weight has also dropped off. Went from a delicate 6'3" 244 lbs, to 207. I also eat right now, with the occasional food orgy.
So thank you so much for all of the free advice. I will do what you all seem to agree are the right things. I hope I didn't give the impression that I'm not at all good. In my current workout that you all suggest I change up a bit, I do :30 50's, 1:05 100's, and try to average 7:00 on the 500's. Surely I can handle the masters thing as a beginner with that, right? Maybe I am a little intimidated... I won't get trampled/drowned at one of these things will I????
Blue
Couple more thoughts:
(1) Tell your masters coach right off that you can hold 5 x 1:05 on a 1:30 sendoff (I think that's what I saw above, modify as appropriate). That will get you started in roughly the right lane.
(2) Do your best to swim the set your coach assigns. Yes, there's a master's prerogative, but use it sparingly, especially at first. Absolutely stop doing something when you are hurting or your stroke has completely broken down, but if the set is 5 x 200 fly on 2:30 (OK, bad example), give it the old college try. Move down a lane or two if need be, for example on IM or stroke days. The goal is to get better, and I firmly believe the best way to do that for those of us trying to overcome a couple of decades of inertia is through swimming real live sets built around all 4 strokes. Plus it alleviates the boredom factor.
(3) If the team is not a good fit for you, find another team. If it needs a little something done to make it better, roll up your sleeves and get involved. I do some little stuff here and there for my team, and I feel like I get back a whole lot more than I put in.
