I have read some past threads about this issue but have a question for anyone that can answer. Last summer I developed a swimmer's shoulder but for different reasons than the one I have now. My technique was pretty poor and my arms and shoulders were doing the majority of the work at that time, not to mention my arm recovery was problematic. That pain eventually resolved as I improved my technique a bit. However over the past month I have really worked hard on the EVF and I'm pretty sure I'm getting the hang of it better because suddenly I've been feeling a soreness in my lats that I never used to feel (and my wife has complemented me on a firmer back, ;)). Anyhow, joking aside, I'm feeling that pain again. I'm also feeling a lot of clicking in my left shoulder. I'm still able to swim, but it's when I'm out of the pool that I really feel it.
This seems to have coincided with my conscious attempts to internally rotate the shoulder on the catch very early. And it's when I practice this maneuver on dryland that I feel the pain. My questions are;
1. Are there others here who have experienced this type of pain as they work on the EVF in particular? Does it pass as you get use to the move?
2. In another post people were discussing catching higher or lower in the water. Has anyone found that catching lower helps avoid this injury? Do you lose speed catching lower (it seems that catching lower is catching closer to your body so less distance to pull). I've certainly seen swimmers like Roland Schoeman who have lower catches.
Thank you Rad. Although the pain is not as bad as it was last summer (I can sleep well now, last summer it affected my sleep), I don't want it to get to that point. I need to be patient. I'll see a sports medicine doc.
taruky-
Sorry to hear you are having shoulder pain.
I have developed some expertise in Swimmer's Shoulder, having experienced several bouts of it as I have learned to swim over the past 4 years.
From your comments, it sounds as if the change to EVF has precipitated a bout of Swimmer's Shoulder. We could do some "discussion forum diagnosis," but I don't think that is in your best interest. The clicking in your left shoulder is a big red flag -- it is never normal and needs expert evaluation.
The safest and best thing to do:
1. Make an appointment with a Sports Medicine Physician experienced in treating swimmers
2. While waiting for #1, lay off swimming until your symptoms resolve. If you go back to the pool, start easy, especially with EVF, and get out of the pool if your shoulder starts to hurt. You might try a straighter elbow technique (deeper hand) if that is more comfortable for you.
3. If referred for physical therapy, make the most of the exercises. I find dryland exercises tedious at best, especially the PT low weight, high rep ones. Nevertheless, they help tremendously.
4. When you recover from your current bout of swimmer's shoulder and are released from any swimming restriction, find a coach expert in teaching EVF. It is very easy to hurt yourself again by repeating the same (possibly incorrect) motions that got you in trouble.
Swimmer's shoulder - a few comments based on my personal and professional experience.
1. Muscle soreness at the end of a workout, and increasing after exercise, and improving the next day is a sign that you are appropriately working shoulder muscles. Soreness in the back and lats is OK, a sign that you are working the correct muscles.
2. Sharp pain, particularly in the anterior (front) and/or superior (upper) shoulder joint, is often of sign of rotator cuff impingement and needs attention. Often fixable by rest, rehab exercises, strengthening, and technique modifications. Sometimes more serious and occassionally requiring surgical repair.
3. Clicking may indicate: 1) an unstable joint (impingement) ; 2) torn ligament or labral cartilage; 3) snapping biceps tendon; 4) snapping scapula syndrome; and several other less common entities. Needs professional evaluation.
My experience with EVF.
1. Now that I have figured it out, it was worth learning.
2. I began relearning to swim as an adult 4 years ago with weak and very unstable shoulder joints. I am pleasantly surprised that I have been able to learn EVF technique without messing up my shoulders. The degree of internal rotation required early in the catch is potentially problematic for those with impingement-prone shoulders like mine. I took a very deliberate approach. I waited over 3 years, until I had improved my shoulder joint flexibility and strength. I waited until the other major aspects of my technique were pretty well developed and until I had no bouts of Swimmer's Shoulder for almost 6 months. Then, I spent weeks drilling each of the component motions in front of a mirror and in the pool.
2. EVF required me to strengthen shoulder internal rotators (primarily subscapularis muscles). For the 12 weeks that I was first drilling EVF, I would get very sore subscapularis muscles -- under my shoulder blades, radiating to the triceps area of both upper arms. I had to cut back from 2500 yards per workout to 800 yards, because of muscle soreness. As I was doing this, a physical therapist friend of mine measured my internal rotation power -- which doubled over those 12 weeks from about 28 lbs of force to almost 60 lbs.
3. I also got sore, but less so, in the scapular stabilizers (lower trapezius, rhomboids). Some soreness is shoulder adductors (latissimus dorsi, not so much in pectoralis muscles).
4. I have increased one whole suit size as my back and chest have strengthened.
5. While I do not swim nearly as fast as many of the regulars on this forum, I am swimming faster than ever, with no shoulder pain using EVF.
I hope that you recover quickly, and are ultimately able to incorporate EVF into your technique. It's pretty cool, if you can do it.
RadSwim
Thank you Rad. Although the pain is not as bad as it was last summer (I can sleep well now, last summer it affected my sleep), I don't want it to get to that point. I need to be patient. I'll see a sports medicine doc.
Good idea. I went through this last year after working on incorporating EVF into my stroke. Oddly, it is not usually the stroke that causes damage, but the recovery. Especially in my case.
Overrotation of the shoulder socket during the recovery phase will let you think that you are getting extra reach on your stroke for the entry, but the clicking you feel or hear is the tendons snapping on the bone in your shoulder from overreaching. An easy and quick test (but not a replacement for seeing a doc or PT) is to look at your recovery and see which way your hand is turned. If the fingers are dragging or the back of the hand is pointing toward the water, you may have a problem. This can be changed (and you may feel immediate relief) if you consciously do this: upon end of pull stroke, once hand is out of the water, turn the palm of the hand to face the water for the entire recovery and enter with the pinkie finger first. This will feel odd, but I found that it gave almost instant relief.
Good idea. I went through this last year after working on incorporating EVF into my stroke. Oddly, it is not usually the stroke that causes damage, but the recovery. Especially in my case.
Overrotation of the shoulder socket during the recovery phase will let you think that you are getting extra reach on your stroke for the entry, but the clicking you feel or hear is the tendons snapping on the bone in your shoulder from overreaching. An easy and quick test (but not a replacement for seeing a doc or PT) is to look at your recovery and see which way your hand is turned. If the fingers are dragging or the back of the hand is pointing toward the water, you may have a problem. This can be changed (and you may feel immediate relief) if you consciously do this: upon end of pull stroke, once hand is out of the water, turn the palm of the hand to face the water for the entire recovery and enter with the pinkie finger first. This will feel odd, but I found that it gave almost instant relief.
Thanks. I think you're referring to supination of the forearm during the recovery? I used to recover with my palm facing directly backward, but will try to get it facing my body a little more.
