Care To Comment on My Stroke?

IMHO, TI is not only a great place to start, but offers you a lifetime of technique tips. Fundamentally, as well, most of the techniques you see being focal points in TI are going to be focal points under other technique programs. Thanks for the video. It would be wonderful if you had some underwater shots (but I know that's a whole different level of technology investment). I'll try to look at this again, but it appeared to me that there are some things you can work on under the water: Start your pull with your hand closer to the surface: you do what a lot of us do (myself included) in that while your pulling arm is extended, it drifts downward before you start your pull. Try when it is extended to hold it up nearer to the surface as you'll be able to access a stronger part of your back when pulling and ... Keep the elbow high underwater through the pull: a byproduct of letting the hand drift down is that you (& most of us) don't then pull with as high an elbow. Like Dan said, if you watch Olympian freestylers swim (esp. the distance guys like Larsen Jensen), you'll see their elbows just barely under the surface ... Pull wider: this is where I'd like to see underwater video, but it appears to me that your pull is under your body and, possibly, crossing the center line of your body. Again, the best freestylers will have a pull that is just outside your body. Check out these beautiful: 17 seconds of Ian Thorpe: au.truveo.com/.../1702816158 15 seconds of Larsen Jensen: www.youtube.com/watch

... One thing that really intrigues me about swimming is the 'feel' for the water, - water density is great feedback!. Sometimes it seems overwhelming then I read stuff like this: ... though I am eager to get my stroke better, I guess if super computers haven't figured out yet, I should be a little more patient with myself :) I remember when I was an age group swimmer one of our coaches was doing (I believe) a graduate project trying to see if there was a relationship between finger tip sensitivity and speed. I was probably around 10 or 11 at the time, so all I recall was a lot of finger tip pricks with pins. I doubt anything came of it. There is definitely something "extra" about the "feel for water" that separates a lot of great swimmers from good swimmers. I would hazard to guess that most swimmers at the elite level have some sensitivity somehow that enables them a better feel. I think it's also interesting that you can read many profiles of elite swimmers who make reference to their klutziness on land (Phelps being one of them). I swam with some fairly elite guys in my time and very few of them were also good "land athletes." As an example of this, in college when the men's swim & dive team played frisbee football on Fridays, a key success factor in winning was maximizing the number of DIVERS on your team ... as they actually possessed a much better "feel for the land" than the majority of swimmers.

There is definitely something "extra" about the "feel for water" that separates a lot of great swimmers from good swimmers. I would hazard to guess that most swimmers at the elite level have some sensitivity somehow that enables them a better feel. That is VERY true, feel is something that you either have or lack. It can be tweaked somewhat but I believe it is an attribute you are born with. I liken it to the incredible hand-eye coordination that baseball players have or the amazing balance gymnasts have...you get it from your genes. I think it's also interesting that you can read many profiles of elite swimmers who make reference to their klutziness on land (Phelps being one of them). I swam with some fairly elite guys in my time and very few of them were also good "land athletes." As an example of this, in college when the men's swim & dive team played frisbee football on Fridays, a key success factor in winning was maximizing the number of DIVERS on your team ... as they actually possessed a much better "feel for the land" than the majority of swimmers. BAHAHAHAHAHA, that is so true! In college, our team (both men's and women's) would go off-campus to play Beer Ball. A few of us could hit, run, and catch but it was rather comical to watch. Add a lot of (cheap) beer to the mix and...well, you get the picture. I will admit though, a few of us could do well with the keg toss after we drank it dry... Very true though about swimmers being klutzy on land. I have the scars from mountain biking and rollerblading to prove it!

I have no quarrel with TI per se. It has its place for many people. A few observations: 1. When you breathe, especially left, you look at the sky. No need to turn your head anymore than required to get a clean breath of air. Don't look up, look to the side. If you do this to give you more time to breathe perhaps you are not exhaling enough before your mouth clears the water. 2. Your right hand enters the water way too close to your head. Then you extend the hand underwater forward before you begin your pull. Extending your hand causes "push drag" which means you are pushing water against the direction you are going. I suggest extending your reach before the hand enters the water. 3. I think your body position, elbows, are really pretty good. 4. I don't think your kick is by any means awful. Many experienced swimmers kick only enough to keep their legs from sinking - especially in practice and for longer swims. This is probably not the right thing for racing shorter races. You can do what I have heard called the 90/10 drill which means attempt to make 90% of your propulsion happen with your legs. That will get you used to the feeling of a strong rapid kick. If you want to compare to some elite swimmers - I suggest going to Youtube and search for "Popov freestyle" or "Ian Thorpe freestyle" or "Grant Hackett freestyle".

I think your stroke looks very nice for someone with roughly 3 months experience. You're keeping your body level in the water and you're not wiggling at the hips--that's good! Those are sometimes the hardest parts to master. I agree that your hands enter way to close to your head. In part, I think that's due to the "mail slot entry" that TI teaches. You do want to enter your hand smoothly, just work on moving the entry out farther (forward) from your head. You already recognize that you're rolling too far when you breathe. One positive takaway is that you're keeping your body level when you breathe. As you work on a less exagerated roll, don't lose that level position--don't let your hips/feet sink.

...thanks for your kind responses . I am going to try entering the hand a bit later. and pulling wider with a higher elbow. WIth the rolling too far.. I know I am doing it but I just keep doing it! One book I am just beginning 'Breakthrough Swimming" and might try some of the exercises in there. One thing that really intrigues me about swimming is the 'feel' for the water, - water density is great feedback!. Sometimes it seems overwhelming then I read stuff like this: blog.wired.com/.../great-swimmers.html Great Swimmers Transcend Science What's her secret? At some level, it's almost mystical: beyond the ability of experts in biomechanics and fluid dynamics to explain. From a 2004 New Yorker profile, one which explains that no human-designed object swims as well as a fish, that simulating the motion of a swimmer is as computationally demanding as a model of galaxy formation, and that swimmers like Coughlin literally possess a "heightened physical perception of the water around the body":One of the video clips that Mittal is currently feeding into his simulation program is of Natalie Coughlin, sinuous as a ribbon, underwater dolphin-kicking seventeen times in a row down the length of a pool. Should it ultimately prove useful as a training aid, one result of this research might be computer-calculated instructions for the mechanically perfect stroke, the one that science has determined will produce the lowest turbulence, the optimal arrangement of invisible eddies, the swiftest route through the water. But the things that a computer is least equipped to factor in-drive, vulnerability, the mysterious relationship between racer and water-are the things that Coughlin makes swimming people talk about. "It's like listening to Yo-Yo Ma," Boomer says. As computer programs and processors become more powerful, scientists will someday be able to explain Natalie Coughlin and Michael Phelps. But for now, just enjoy them. though I am eager to get my stroke better, I guess if super computers haven't figured out yet, I should be a little more patient with myself :)

mcarm: Your stroke is not bad for 3-months of swimming. You might check out http://www.h2oustonswims.org/ Look for the article: What floats yer boat? by Mr. E. Hines The superman glide with a slice of kickboard might be just what you need to help fix your balance, breathing and slightly "schlumpy" swim posture. Your second lap is 2-3 more strokes than your first--that would indicate you are fighting balance and breathing issues. Good luck. MJM

. Your second lap is 2-3 more strokes than your first--that would indicate you are fighting balance and breathing issues. Good luck. MJM Oh yes, definitely! I can swim 20 laps straight with a pull buoy and paddles, but free, I have to catch my breath every lap or two.

Oh yes, definitely! I can swim 20 laps straight with a pull buoy and paddles, but free, I have to catch my breath every lap or two. My :2cents:: for the time being, try to do most of your swimming without buoy or paddles. The buoy artificially allows you to ride higher in the water and the paddles might mask some weakness in your pull. Both distort your stroke. Full disclosure: I'm one of the more "anti-equipment" voices on these forums. I almost never use a kickboard either because I think it puts you in a body position that is different enough from a swimming position.

Full disclosure: I'm one of the more "anti-equipment" voices on these forums. I almost never use a kickboard either because I think it puts you in a body position that is different enough from a swimming position. This will soon be changing if I have any say in it! Good advice for the new guy...but in your case Patrick you are highly conditioned and have great technique, there are only so many days/hours/yards you can put in the water and to get you up a notch or two we need to build your strength. Paddles with fins to start...then I want to get you on the bungee cord.