I have seen a few drills for flip turns (one in a recent USMS SWIMMER magazine article, another as a series on GoSwimWeekly) emphasizing "weightless hands/arms" going into the turn, so that you use your core rather than your arms to get you around.
Others have told me it is critical to throw water over your shoulder as you turn, either with one or both arms, keeping your elbows locked to your side but pushing water toward your head with your palm(s) and after that motion going into streamline.
This seems to go against weightless arms/hands streamlined against your side as you go into and out of the turn.
Do people consciously throw water over their shoulders as they turn, or is this just an unconscious but natural consequence of a powerful turn?
Are the weightless arm/hand drills a good way to teach and practice flip turns? I've found these drills helpful but want the best turns I can get and wonder about other, better flippers than me.
That said, I am sure there are a million ways to do flip turns.
I searched this forum for answers to this; couldn't find anything specific, though I'm quite sure it's been discussed. If so, someone please direct me to the thread?
Above water, I see tight arms at sides for most good flippers. Below water I don't see what's happening, except in videos, and I see that Olympians bend their arms a little and do seem to use extra force with arms to get around.
I tried this and the first time it worked. The second time I was not fast enough and nearly ripped my shoulders off. Essentially my arms were in some kind of "chair" position since I wasn't fast enough (much drag!).
I think you are right. Don't overthink. My turns work better for me if I keep my arms fairly passive (though tight against my sides when I begin my turns) and use the force of my pike to fling me over, keeping my arms neutral, because that way they seem to be automatically in streamline when I come out of my turns.
For freestyle I am trying to make it a habit to come out of my turns nearly on my back, then glide and rotate to my side for a longer time than I used to, then dolphin my way up to surface, the pull with the arm closer to the bottom of the pool and swim away with flutter kick as fast as I can.
Above water, I see tight arms at sides for most good flippers. Below water I don't see what's happening, except in videos, and I see that Olympians bend their arms a little and do seem to use extra force with arms to get around.
I tried this and the first time it worked. The second time I was not fast enough and nearly ripped my shoulders off. Essentially my arms were in some kind of "chair" position since I wasn't fast enough (much drag!).
I think you are right. Don't overthink. My turns work better for me if I keep my arms fairly passive (though tight against my sides when I begin my turns) and use the force of my pike to fling me over, keeping my arms neutral, because that way they seem to be automatically in streamline when I come out of my turns.
For freestyle I am trying to make it a habit to come out of my turns nearly on my back, then glide and rotate to my side for a longer time than I used to, then dolphin my way up to surface, the pull with the arm closer to the bottom of the pool and swim away with flutter kick as fast as I can.
