Flip turns: Weightless arms/hands?

I have seen a few drills for flip turns (one in a recent USMS SWIMMER magazine article, another as a series on GoSwimWeekly) emphasizing "weightless hands/arms" going into the turn, so that you use your core rather than your arms to get you around. Others have told me it is critical to throw water over your shoulder as you turn, either with one or both arms, keeping your elbows locked to your side but pushing water toward your head with your palm(s) and after that motion going into streamline. This seems to go against weightless arms/hands streamlined against your side as you go into and out of the turn. Do people consciously throw water over their shoulders as they turn, or is this just an unconscious but natural consequence of a powerful turn? Are the weightless arm/hand drills a good way to teach and practice flip turns? I've found these drills helpful but want the best turns I can get and wonder about other, better flippers than me. That said, I am sure there are a million ways to do flip turns. I searched this forum for answers to this; couldn't find anything specific, though I'm quite sure it's been discussed. If so, someone please direct me to the thread?
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  • When I start my turning motion, both my hands are down by my hips, palms facing the bottom of the pool. The flip itself is a hard pike, so that my head goes toward my knees. I'd say it's primarily abs that cause the tumbling motion although I think I do a sort of dolphin kick that recruits my quads as well to get my legs moving up out of the water. Hamstrings first stretch as I pike, then contract to snap my heels over. I bend my arms at the elbow as I am going over but I don't think that motion contributes much if any power. It's just to spin faster by making the part of my body that is underwater as small as possible, and to get my hands up by my head so that they are where they need to be when I push off.
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  • When I start my turning motion, both my hands are down by my hips, palms facing the bottom of the pool. The flip itself is a hard pike, so that my head goes toward my knees. I'd say it's primarily abs that cause the tumbling motion although I think I do a sort of dolphin kick that recruits my quads as well to get my legs moving up out of the water. Hamstrings first stretch as I pike, then contract to snap my heels over. I bend my arms at the elbow as I am going over but I don't think that motion contributes much if any power. It's just to spin faster by making the part of my body that is underwater as small as possible, and to get my hands up by my head so that they are where they need to be when I push off.
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