I saw a post on these forums with a link to a site discussing the future of breaststroke and the idea of NOT breathing every stroke. I can see how it might be advantageous, especially in a 50.
For those not familiar, the idea is that during your main stroke phase, every other stroke you pull as though you're going to take a breath, you still come up but not nearly as much as a breathing stroke. It seems to me (this, having not tried it yet) that this would allow you to not only conserve energy but also actually deliver more force to the water due to a more opportune angle to move forward. It also seems like it would allow you to stay in a lower stroke, also allowing for a quicker and more effective streamline each non-breathing stroke.
Well, my question is this, do you guys think that it's a good idea to start working toward this sort of stroke, also, if I have a meet tonight should I risk it?
I think that for the 50 it is a definite plus, but what about the 100? My 100 Breaststroke time is a 1:07.16 currently so I would be more than just a bit outside of the 40 second rule for no breathing. I'm also worried that breathing less means that my pullout will be less effective due to a lack of oxygen, is this concern warranted?
My 50 time is currently a 30.19, I really want to get it under 30 seconds. Do you guys think that not breathing each stroke will make a significant difference?
Former Member
I'll be posting videos of my performance tonight. This first one was my 200 IM, a personal best, My breaststroke was terrible here, as well as just about everything else but the only way to improve is through criticism. What should I work on to make sure my stroke doesn't deteriorate as badly as it did?
Also, why does my left arm look as bad as it does? How do I fix my sprinkler kick on the Backstroke?
My 50 Breaststroke looked strong, the turn was fast, how can I improve on it? How should I change my stroke/timing to go faster?
My 100 wasn't great, all of my turns were short (finishing on a half stroke :S) and my pullouts were weak to say the least, my 50 Pullouts were much better. Fix me! :(
200IM: Decent example of my stroke when it's falling apart.
www.youtube.com/watch
200 Medley Relay: My Sprint Breaststroke, I am second here.
www.youtube.com/watch
100 Breaststroke: Not a best time but still a 1:08. My turns were ALL terrible, and my pullouts were no better. :(
www.youtube.com/watch
Notably, I did try and breathe every other stroke on my 50, rather, lifting my head much less on my non-breathing stroke.
Thx for the vid!
I have a hard time seeing your kick when watching this but I think you should focus heavily on your arm movements anyway in the coming 6 months. In my opinion you are doing four mistakes.
#1 You pull your arms too slow.
#2 The recovery of the arms is below the water surface...creating unnecessary resistance.
#3 Your head is popping up and down disturbing your position in the water (already mentioned in a post above).
#4 Your head is never totally below the surface at any time in each stroke cycle... creating unnecessary resistance
My stroke looked like this little bit over one year ago as well. I started to mentally focus on "exploding the arms forward" in the recovery phase...and to do it on the water surface instead of beneath. This also created the positive effect that I pulled a little bit faster in the later part of the pull. This made me go faster. Dramatically. I practically "shaved off" 0.5 seconds on my personal best every 6 months as i refined my stroke. Now I have "shaved off" 2,3 seconds since I changed my technique and I still think I have lots of room for improvement. I could only do this fast arm movement for 20-25 meter though in the beginning, but now I can do a 100 with very explosive arm movements...my kick however is still terrible. That is my focus area at the moment :)
Look at this Youtube clip of the master himself. Notice how unbelievable fast he does the arm movements and how fast he shoots the arms forward in the recovery phase on the surface. This is what I am trying to achieve myself :)
www.youtube.com/watch
With this modified technique you will swim with higher speed. Allowing you to glide a little bit more (with head totally below surface). Leading to fewer strokes per length. Now you do 10-12 strokes per length. I guess this is a yard pool??...you should have like 6-8 strokes each lengt in that case. This will make you last longer in the 100 and still going way faster than you do today.
Good luck!
/Per
He is right.Looking at it again your pull is outsweep dominant.With the possible exception of Liesel Jones all the World Class breaststrokers are insweep dominant.Work on accelerating your arms throughout the pull.Make your recovery an extension of the pull and as said shoot your hand forward.
I saw a post on these forums with a link to a site discussing the future of breaststroke and the idea of NOT breathing every stroke. I can see how it might be advantageous, especially in a 50.
For those not familiar, the idea is that during your main stroke phase, every other stroke you pull as though you're going to take a breath, you still come up but not nearly as much as a breathing stroke. It seems to me (this, having not tried it yet) that this would allow you to not only conserve energy but also actually deliver more force to the water due to a more opportune angle to move forward. It also seems like it would allow you to stay in a lower stroke, also allowing for a quicker and more effective streamline each non-breathing stroke.
Well, my question is this, do you guys think that it's a good idea to start working toward this sort of stroke, also, if I have a meet tonight should I risk it?
I think that for the 50 it is a definite plus, but what about the 100? My 100 Breaststroke time is a 1:07.16 currently so I would be more than just a bit outside of the 40 second rule for no breathing. I'm also worried that breathing less means that my pullout will be less effective due to a lack of oxygen, is this concern warranted?
My 50 time is currently a 30.19, I really want to get it under 30 seconds. Do you guys think that not breathing each stroke will make a significant difference?
With all the experimentations by world-record holders on what makes one faster, I would take my cue from them. No doubt they have tried this in practice and have seen no advantage. If world-record swimmers don't do it, then there is a reason why they don't.
I would think that since breaststroke uses the legs more than any other stroke, getting plenty of oxygen is essential since the muscles in the leg area are large.
100 Breaststroke: Not a best time but still a 1:08. My turns were ALL terrible, and my pullouts were no better. :(
www.youtube.com/watch
Thx for the vid!
I have a hard time seeing your kick when watching this but I think you should focus heavily on your arm movements anyway in the coming 6 months. In my opinion you are doing four mistakes.
#1 You pull your arms too slow.
#2 The recovery of the arms is below the water surface...creating unnecessary resistance.
#3 Your head is popping up and down disturbing your position in the water (already mentioned in a post above).
#4 Your head is never totally below the surface at any time in each stroke cycle... creating unnecessary resistance
My stroke looked like this little bit over one year ago as well. I started to mentally focus on "exploding the arms forward" in the recovery phase...and to do it on the water surface instead of beneath. This also created the positive effect that I pulled a little bit faster in the later part of the pull. This made me go faster. Dramatically. I practically "shaved off" 0.5 seconds on my personal best every 6 months as i refined my stroke. Now I have "shaved off" 2,3 seconds since I changed my technique and I still think I have lots of room for improvement. I could only do this fast arm movement for 20-25 meter though in the beginning, but now I can do a 100 with very explosive arm movements...my kick however is still terrible. That is my focus area at the moment :)
Look at this Youtube clip of the master himself. Notice how unbelievable fast he does the arm movements and how fast he shoots the arms forward in the recovery phase on the surface. This is what I am trying to achieve myself :)
www.youtube.com/watch
With this modified technique you will swim with higher speed. Allowing you to glide a little bit more (with head totally below surface). Leading to fewer strokes per length. Now you do 10-12 strokes per length. I guess this is a yard pool??...you should have like 6-8 strokes each lengt in that case. This will make you last longer in the 100 and still going way faster than you do today.
Good luck!
/Per
So I should focus on making my transition from my pull to my glide phase a hard and almost instantaneous motion? Also, I think the in-sweep alteration mentioned is similar to what a friend of mine (a college swimmer) told me, I need to suck in HARD in terms of my arms, going from the glide to the pull, once at my normal arm position, rather than sliding my arms to my side forcefully suck them in and throw out forward?
I'll be on tomorrow at around 12:00 am EST to read responses, Also, I have a meet on Monday in the afternoon, I don't know how much of a change I can make but I can drill it a bit during warm up and give it a trial run, if it fails I will simply continue stroking as I would normally.
I'm going to try gliding more tomorrow but at the same time pulling through faster and entering my glide harder, possibly waiting until I lock the glide to kick (though, I think that would cause my legs to create too much drag so I don't know about the waiting.), hopefully it works well.
Again, I'll be able to read any responses made before the meet, I'm looking forward to them. Thanks again guys, this is why I love USMS. :)
As a basic matter, you can work on your kick. It's hard to tell from the video but yours doesn't look particularly strong.
If you are serious about the stroke, you should devote all of your kick time to breaststroke kick. If you have access to a good weight room you should also do abducter and adducter machines. Here's what those machines look like (I like the seated ones): www.exrx.net/.../Hip.html
Based on your IM you look pretty good at the other strokes too. Do you think of yourself as a breaststroker, an IMer or something else?
Here's something I noticed that no one else mentioned:
You don't appear to be grabbing the walls on your turns. If you have a gutter, by all means use it!
Your extension (reach of the arms) on the glide is where the additional speed might be gained.
Wayne describes the wave style breaststroke on his website...
"The above water portion of the stroke has become less stylish in favor of spending more time per stroke in the streamlined position. Very small changes to head position and pull patterns are increasing the time in this streamlined position.
In the 200 stroke distance per stroke is increased by decreasing drag in this streamlined position by being underwater. This decrease in drag and increase in distance per stroke make continued lower times breaststroke easier to obtain".
www.breaststroke.info/Whatwentrightwiththewavestylebreaststroke.htm
Well, I tried it last night (though I was basically cruising tonight's swim), I noticed something, Throwing out into my glide and gliding for a longer period of time made my Breaststroke less exhausting. My time was a 1:08.99, I was trying to conserve energy for the 400 Freestyle Relay directly after my 100 Breaststroke (Which, notably, was a best time and generally looked much smoother.)
I'll get back to you on how it works, I've got the first practice of the week on Wednesday so I can drill the hell out of the Breaststroke. I'm excited to see how it performs when I don't have to worry about another race directly afterward. I intend to make all of my turns fast (oh, really? :P) and I won't skimp on any of my pullouts so this will be a good benchmark for how well this altered technique works.
I glided considerably longer last night and it felt like it was less difficult to stay moving, the only problem was that at first I had some decent competition. I think what this did was slowed down my first 50 split and significantly dropped my closing leg. I really want to know how to make my Breaststroke faster, if I'm ever going to drop times I feel like I need to find a stroke that allows me to move through the water easier.
If you couldn't tell from the videos, I am 6'2" and fairly flexible, I am willing to try any stroke variation that could even remotely make my stroke faster. I'm a bit frustrated by the past three meets, I've been at a 1:08-1:09 these past three meets and I'm afraid that without further changes it will stay that way.
Any tips? I can post up my 100 Breaststroke from last night as well as tonight, along with the previous recording you might be able to get a decent idea of where my stroke is at. Thanks! :)
