I saw a post on these forums with a link to a site discussing the future of breaststroke and the idea of NOT breathing every stroke. I can see how it might be advantageous, especially in a 50.
For those not familiar, the idea is that during your main stroke phase, every other stroke you pull as though you're going to take a breath, you still come up but not nearly as much as a breathing stroke. It seems to me (this, having not tried it yet) that this would allow you to not only conserve energy but also actually deliver more force to the water due to a more opportune angle to move forward. It also seems like it would allow you to stay in a lower stroke, also allowing for a quicker and more effective streamline each non-breathing stroke.
Well, my question is this, do you guys think that it's a good idea to start working toward this sort of stroke, also, if I have a meet tonight should I risk it?
I think that for the 50 it is a definite plus, but what about the 100? My 100 Breaststroke time is a 1:07.16 currently so I would be more than just a bit outside of the 40 second rule for no breathing. I'm also worried that breathing less means that my pullout will be less effective due to a lack of oxygen, is this concern warranted?
My 50 time is currently a 30.19, I really want to get it under 30 seconds. Do you guys think that not breathing each stroke will make a significant difference?
NEVER make a change right before a meet.I have tried the every other stroke breathing and it is not as fast for me.I agree it messes up the arm recovery for me.Try it though and see how it is for you.
I tried it tonight and I did see a significant improvement but I think there were other factors involved. My start was quite good and my first Pullout felt downright beastly.
I went a 29.08 tonight, that's 1.1 seconds under my previous best from a whiiiile ago. My 100 breaststroke wasn't as good, I swam a 1:08.96 tonight but I can pin that on my stroke itself falling apart, flattening out and such due to fatigue and distraction.
Notably, I also swam my best 50 freestyle thusfar, a 26.36, nothing too special but I'm still happy with it.
I have a few questions to ask additionally, my opening 50 is normally a 31 or so, and my closer is the one that weighs me down the most. I basically closed a 38 tonight. That seems wrong. What can I work on to maximize my stroke for the second 50? Should I glide more? Should I stroke faster? What can counteract the losses due to fatigue?
I have a hard time understanding how to do this with modern breaststroke technique where you want to recover your arms on the water surface level. Physically your head needs to be even further up than your arms...then you might as well breathe since you are up there :)
With old school technique with underwater arm recovery it might work of course...
I have dropped 2.3 seconds in my 50 *** (currently 29.01 SCM) during the last year mainly through improvement of my arm movements. I still have much to improve with my leg kick. I don´t think breathing every other stroke is the way forward....at all if you want to seriously improve your times.
:2cents:
/Per
The 29.08 was during a meet, not practice :P
I think actually the reason for my quick opening split is how well my pullout performs when I'm still fresh. My start is nothing special and my turns are often sloppy due to adrennaline causing me to forget how to swim.
The thing is that my 50 stroke feels inefficient, It doesn't have enough gliding to be maintained throughout a full race-pace 100. I'm going to take my friend's advice tonight and add about a quarter of a second to to each glide, and also staying LOW and strong.
My last 25 was an 18 from what my friend Xavier said so given that my last 50 was a 38 my THIRD 25 was actually the worst, almost a 20 second split! Bah, how do I fix it? :)
Thanks a lot for the help Fly,
I'll be sure to post my times tonight up here, I'm hoping to swim a 1:06 tonight, I'm swimming against a guy that goes a 1:08 currently, about what I swam last night. Should be an interesting race which I'm pretty sure I can finish well, despite swimming an IM only a short while before. :)
My guess is you're a churner. That makes for a fast 50 but death on anything longer. If you want to race 100 or even 200 breaststroke, you will need to lengthen out your stroke. How many strokes per length are you taking?
Good luck tonight. If you care about the breaststroke race, I'd skip the IM...
my opening 50 is normally a 31 or so, and my closer is the one that weighs me down the most. I basically closed a 38 tonight. That seems wrong. What can I work on to maximize my stroke for the second 50? Should I glide more? Should I stroke faster? What can counteract the losses due to fatigue?
You seem to be suffering from the same thing I am suffering from. You probably have a strong start and turn which gives you a reasonable good time in the 50...but your swimming is not relatively as good as your start and turns so you suffer heavily when you dont have the same speed advantage from the start in the second 50. A normal second 50 would say +4-5 seconds from the first one given that you are in good shape. However if you can do 29 in practice you should definately not open in 31...you should be going 29.5 or something...then back home in 33.5 ending up with 1.03.0
Check your 2nd and 3rd 25 splits. add them together. That is the time you should be able to go in your last 50 if you dont suffer too much from fatigue.
Another tip when not in top shape to avoid a poor second 50 is to open the first 25 in 95% go 97% in the second end then all out in the last 50.
:2cents:
/Per
PS Are you talking SCY/SCM/LCM times here?
Count your strokes every time you swim.Do it so it's second nature so that you can count in a meet without thinking."Churning"in a 50 is not necessarily a problem,but you can't churn a 100.My stroke count in a 100 is 7-8/25 yd.You should not be over 10 max.In a 100 or 200 it is very important to make sure you get really streamlined for every kick.Hold that for just a tick in the 100(ride the glide) and maybe a sec in the 200(that's the main thing that makes Kitajima the best.)
The 29.08 was during a meet, not practice :P
I think actually the reason for my quick opening split is how well my pullout performs when I'm still fresh. My start is nothing special and my turns are often sloppy due to adrennaline causing me to forget how to swim.
The thing is that my 50 stroke feels inefficient, It doesn't have enough gliding to be maintained throughout a full race-pace 100. I'm going to take my friend's advice tonight and add about a quarter of a second to to each glide, and also staying LOW and strong.
My last 25 was an 18 from what my friend Xavier said so given that my last 50 was a 38 my THIRD 25 was actually the worst, almost a 20 second split! Bah, how do I fix it? :)
Thanks a lot for the help Fly,
I'll be sure to post my times tonight up here, I'm hoping to swim a 1:06 tonight, I'm swimming against a guy that goes a 1:08 currently, about what I swam last night. Should be an interesting race which I'm pretty sure I can finish well, despite swimming an IM only a short while before. :)
Thanks for the videos.The 100 is much better in showing your stroke,but I think you had the same problems in each.On your first stroke out of the pullout you are lifting your head.This was especially bad on the 50 turn.
You are moving your head too much.Your head should hardly move in breaststroke.When you lift your head it causes your hips to drop.You are having your head lead your undulation instead of your torso.The tennis ball under the chin would be a good drill for you.
You are over lapping your pull with your kick.That is not necessarily a problem in the 50,but is causing you to die in your 100.Make sure your kick is finished(and you are really streamlined)before starting your pull.Work on squeezing your ears with your biceps every stroke.The 1,2,3 sec drill would help you.Swim BR with a 1 sec glide,then 2 then 3.See how that feels.A 1 sec glide is too long for a 100,but you will get the idea.
Thanks for the tips Allen, I'll try those drills out tomorrow, I'll be dropping by the pool and doing some drills and turn work mostly. We've got a meet on Monday so I don't want to get too lap heavy. Any suggestions on distance/pace to try these drills, or just swim with that in mind?
