Hey, just here to ask a few questions before my swim meet tonight, I've noticed something. When I went my recent best time this past week, my first 50 was completely relaxed and my closing 50 was strained. I went 8 seconds slower during the second 50.
Is it possible that slowing down my stroke and making myself move through the water cleaner, more of a streamline?
I've been trying it in practice but I'm really having troubles finding the sweet spot in terms of stroke count to pull strength, and how I should position myself to produce the least drag.
I would really appreciate some help with this guys, I want to drop my time. :)
For reference, I currently go a 1:09.07 in my 100y Breastroke, I know it's slow but i'm still in highschool. My 50y Breaststroke is roughly a 30 flat, I have yet to break that mark.
My father is the one that pointed this out, I raced someone that went a 1:07 while I was in the pool and he stroked much less than me, I was turning over at a painful rate and he was almost relaxed.
Tell me, how do I fix this? Thanks a lot guys, I love this forum. :)
A lot of breaststrokers concentrate on counting strokes per length and keeping that number consistent. I bet if you count yours you are taking a couple more strokes per length on each 25 of the second 50. You will probably take one fewer stroke on the first 25 due to the start, but try to keep your stroke count the same for the other three 25s.
Former Member
Hey Anthony ~ I feel your pain. I had a similar problem when I was a senior in high school. My second 50 was 6 seconds slower. I swam a year in college and only dropped another second on my 100 time. I burned out, in part, due to the lack of progress I was making. Here is what I would do differently today.
1. Talk to my coach about the disparity between the front and back ends of my swim.
2. Express my sincere desire to work on this in practice with his/her help.
3. Prove it to them by doing exactly what they tell you in practice.
3. Start negative splitting everything in practice.
I didn't do any of these things despite the fact that I probably could have gone at least a couple of seconds faster just by learning how to properly split the race. I just didn't know and apparently my coaches didn't either.
The good news is that you have a 1:06 or better within your capability just by learning to split the race. Since you are in high school, your time could drop significantly again due to strength gains that are typical. Even without proper splitting, I dropped almost 8 seconds on my 100 BR between my freshman and senior years.
The bad news is that any changes you make for your race tonight could result in a slower time.
Let us know how it goes.
Former Member
I most definitely will, thanks for the advice!
I'm just going to try and glide a bit longer and make my pull phase a bit more rigid. Wish me luck! :)
Former Member
I'm 50 and I race the 100 ***. The splits on my recent 100 SCM race were 36.73 and 40.25. I was very happy with those splits. In the same meet I swam a very flawed 50 *** in 34.14. So the 1st 50 of my 100 was 2.5 secs slower than my 50.
If you are a 30 sec SCY 50 guy - You might aim for 32.5/36 for a 1:08.5. I think the front 50 of a 100 *** is faster than the front 50 of 100 free because of the pullout from a dive. Resist the urge to blast off the first 50. You'll feel fast - but at the 50 you'll feel the fatigue it hurts from there. Hold back a bit on the 1st 25. For me - I aimed for a perceived 80% effort. You'll find that when you're not trashed your glide will be better and you'll have some stroke power at the end.
BTW - I think the 50 is almost different event completely. The 50 is a race with very fast hands and almost no glide at all. You cannot swim the 100 that way.
I made a mistake last year and swam a 100 SCY with a 31+/37 splits. The 2nd 50 was awful.
Last year my son - a high school senior - swam a 58.99 100 *** with 27.96/31.03 splits.
There are some very good breaststrokers on this forum. I do not consider myself to be one of them. I was not a good breaststroker when I was in high school and for some reason I'm not bad now.
But I have learned a few things....
I have read and heard that the hands should be "fast" moving from the catch to the recovery. By moving the hands quickly from the pulling phase to the recovery phase you create less drag and your streamline should improve. That will improve your glide. Timing is a big thing too - but hard to describe. But I think the general advice is that the propulsion phase of the kick should occur when your hands/elbows are narrow and already in a streamlined recovery position.
Good luck. If you're already mid 1:08 that's great improvement.
I agree.I like to say BR doesn't really have a recovery as it should be mostly a continuation of your insweep.A drill you might try is 1,2,and 3 sec glides.If you can keep your speed in the 3 sec glide you probably have good streamlining and a good kick.Another good drill is "golf".count your strokes,add it to your time and try to get as low a number as possible.If you can go the same speed with fewer strokes you will have more left for the second 50.Work on REALLY squeezing your ears with your biceps every stroke during your kick.Focusing on that I was able to drop 1 SPL without slowing down.What is your stroke count?I'd guess you want it to be 10 or less.
Former Member
That's awesome! Give your son a big congratulations from me, sub minute B-strokes are an awesome thing to achieve, as well as to see.
I didn't try much new last night because I was worried it would shake up my times too much but I did take a bit of a break. I spent a longer time on walls last night and just generally took my stroke easy because I got the rather unsettling news that I was swimming the anchoring leg in the 400y freestyle relay.
I did a few things last night, my Breaststroke was a 1:08 mid, probably a 1:08.6~ish but what I was happy with was my Freestyle performance. I am by NO stretch a good freestyler and I managed to get two best times last night.
I went a 23.36 in my 50y and a 57.46 in my 100y, this was quite an amazing performance considering my old best for the 50y was a 29.12 and my old best for the 100y was a 1:05.67. I'm happy, to say the least.
Thanks for the advice on practice technique, I'll talk to my coach about how to implement these, perhaps stroke a few sets with reasonable intervals.
I didn't really give gliding longer a chance last night as the whole stroke was laxx'd but I'd still say a 1:08.6 is pretty decent in terms of performance considering my best is about .4 below that.
Wish me luck tonight in practice, I'll report back with how my stroke is feeling.
HAHAHA! Seems to me like you are a damn good freestyler. 23.36 is a very good 50 and 57.46 is a very good 100. Congratulations! I'm still struggling to get my 50 time under my PB of 29.12 and my 100 time under 1:06.12. I know I can get my 100 time under a 1:06 but I feel stuck at my 50 time. In the 100 I can work on my turns and streamline but in the 50 that has less effect. I'm talking SCY. Anyways, good job.
Former Member
Bareblar - The gap between your 50 and 100 free times is also big. 23.36 is a very solid 50 time. But your 100 free time is not so solid. A guy who goes 23+ in the 50 should be swimming the 100 in 51-53, not 57. Typical splits might be 25.0/27.5 = 52.5.
Your freestyle times suggest a need to improve your overall fitness and aerobic capacity. That should come with time but you might want to think about how you train for it. The 23+ 50 shows you have very good power and speed. But your endurance deteriorates quickly - more than usual for a sprinter.
Former Member
I'm 50 and I race the 100 ***. The splits on my recent 100 SCM race were 36.73 and 40.25. I was very happy with those splits. In the same meet I swam a very flawed 50 *** in 34.14. So the 1st 50 of my 100 was 2.5 secs slower than my 50.
If you are a 30 sec SCY 50 guy - You might aim for 32.5/36 for a 1:08.5. I think the front 50 of a 100 *** is faster than the front 50 of 100 free because of the pullout from a dive. Resist the urge to blast off the first 50. You'll feel fast - but at the 50 you'll feel the fatigue it hurts from there. Hold back a bit on the 1st 25. For me - I aimed for a perceived 80% effort. You'll find that when you're not trashed your glide will be better and you'll have some stroke power at the end.
BTW - I think the 50 is almost different event completely. The 50 is a race with very fast hands and almost no glide at all. You cannot swim the 100 that way.
I made a mistake last year and swam a 100 SCY with a 31+/37 splits. The 2nd 50 was awful.
Last year my son - a high school senior - swam a 58.99 100 *** with 27.96/31.03 splits.
That's awesome! Give your son a big congratulations from me, sub minute B-strokes are an awesome thing to achieve, as well as to see.
I didn't try much new last night because I was worried it would shake up my times too much but I did take a bit of a break. I spent a longer time on walls last night and just generally took my stroke easy because I got the rather unsettling news that I was swimming the anchoring leg in the 400y freestyle relay.
I did a few things last night, my Breaststroke was a 1:08 mid, probably a 1:08.6~ish but what I was happy with was my Freestyle performance. I am by NO stretch a good freestyler and I managed to get two best times last night.
I went a 23.36 in my 50y and a 57.46 in my 100y, this was quite an amazing performance considering my old best for the 50y was a 29.12 and my old best for the 100y was a 1:05.67. I'm happy, to say the least.
Thanks for the advice on practice technique, I'll talk to my coach about how to implement these, perhaps stroke a few sets with reasonable intervals.
I didn't really give gliding longer a chance last night as the whole stroke was laxx'd but I'd still say a 1:08.6 is pretty decent in terms of performance considering my best is about .4 below that.
Wish me luck tonight in practice, I'll report back with how my stroke is feeling.
Former Member
There are some very good breaststrokers on this forum. I do not consider myself to be one of them. I was not a good breaststroker when I was in high school and for some reason I'm not bad now.
But I have learned a few things....
I have read and heard that the hands should be "fast" moving from the catch to the recovery. By moving the hands quickly from the pulling phase to the recovery phase you create less drag and your streamline should improve. That will improve your glide. Timing is a big thing too - but hard to describe. But I think the general advice is that the propulsion phase of the kick should occur when your hands/elbows are narrow and already in a streamlined recovery position.
Good luck. If you're already mid 1:08 that's great improvement.