Straight arm pull - correcting

for the underwater pull, you can have them scrape their thumbnails down their vertical mid-lines as they pull down (from the tip of the forehead to the bottom of the gut). Once he gets used to that, then have him put a hand's distance between his thumbnail and his vertical mid-line as he pulls. for a windmill overarm recovery, there's always the fingertip drag drill. --Sean EDIT: Be careful with the mid-line thumb drill, though, because, if they aren't very experienced swimmers, they may start cutting out their reaches as they focus on touching thumbnail to forehead. Reach, then pull back to the forehead.

for a windmill overarm recovery, there's always the fingertip drag drill. Windmill is not a stroke error.

Windmill is not a stroke error. you are championing that a straight arm movement throughout the entirety of overarm recovery is not a) inefficient, b) generally accepted as bad form, and c) really bad for your shoulder? i'd like to hear your logic on that one. --Sean

you are championing that a straight arm movement throughout the entirety of overarm recovery is not a) inefficient, b) generally accepted as bad form, and c) really bad for your shoulder? i'd like to hear your logic on that one. The current men's world record holders in the 50 and 100 freestyle short course and long course do it. Edit: Also check out the article Windmill Revolution by Bill Volckening.

I'm not speaking for Jazz Hands but several elite swimmers have or had windmill style recoveries. Janet Evans, like many females, had a straight arm recovery. Stefan Nystrand and Fred Bousquet have essentially straight arm recoveries. I agree it is generally agreed it is not "good from" but that doesn't make it wrong. I fail to see how it is less efficient nor more harmful to the shoulder. I do see that a straight arm recovery is more likely to produce a distruptive hand entry. I'm not an advocate of a straight arm recovery. I work every day on a high elbow both above and below the water line. But I think a straight arm recover is in the range of acceptable or correct styles of freestyle stroke.

Use a natural straight arm recovery, lots of roll, throw the hand like a weight, drive, the entry. My shoulders feel much better than from when doing high elbow. Also didn't hurt my times. Some tout it as the progressive way and call "high elbow" dated. Use what works for you but don't shut anything off.

The current men's world record holders in the 50 and 100 freestyle short course and long course do it. Edit: Also check out the article Windmill Revolution by Bill Volckening. it's a bad habit of eamon sullivan's. i talk to his biomechanist every once in a while. below is a conversation we had about this very thing. i took out his identifying information, aside from his first name, and his and my contact info. I also took out identifying information about private persons mentioned in this discussion. -- Sean Fowler Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 12:55 AM To: Andrew Fantastic work on Eamon Sullivan, by the way. Congratulations! -- Andrew Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 1:26 AM To: Sean Fowler Cheers - am looking forward to tomorrow! It should be a blistering final... -- From: Sean Fowler Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 9:32 AM To: Andrew Indeed. Although I would also be happy if Sullivan was able to defend his current standing, I must admit that I am dearly hoping that Jason Lezak can pull out a 46 flat like he did in his earlier relay. It will be amazing to watch, no matter what, though. Records aren't just being broken in this Olympics; they're being shattered. Good Luck, --Sean -- Sean Fowler Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 12:55 AM To: Andrew Well, Sullivan's time was not beaten, but he only took the silver. Still, a very good outing. Congratulations again. I am a bit disappointed in Lezak, but bronze is alright. Is it just that his recovery is so fast that it appears this way, or is Sullivan's overarm recovery a bit windmill-like? --Sean -- Andrew Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 2:09 AM To: Sean Fowler Hi Sean, Yeah - would expect Eamon to come out firing in the 50m... Regarding his recovery - is definitely almost a straight arm action but comes out to the side more than what probably appears on TV... Cheers, Andrew -- Sean Fowler Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 9:17 AM To: Andrew Well, I'll certainly be watching his progress over the next few days, then. So, is that straight arm action your doing? --Sean -- Andrew Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 8:44 PM To: Sean Fowler Hi Sean, Didn't promote the straight arm recovery and am not a big fan of it, but conversely, I think it is an area which isn't going to have a big impact on his swimming stroke so haven't dwelt on it... Cheers, Andrew -- From: Sean Fowler Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 9:02 PM To: Andrew Hi Andrew, Whew! Thank goodness. If you said you did encourage it, I would have spent the next week racking my brain trying to think of how on earth that'd be an advantage. I guess my only four questions with regard to that sort of overarm recovery would be: 1) Is it good for the shoulder to move like that?, 2) does it create additional drag by widening the streamline form?, 3) doesn't it create a lower equilibrium point for the swimmer by having a fully extended arm hovering above the water?, and 4) doesn't it take more time to recover from a curvilinear recovery than from the more common bent-elbow straight recovery? --Sean -- Andrew Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 9:13 PM To: Sean Fowler Hi Sean, Short answers are 1) no; 2) shouldn't be a big increase if any - depends on the path of the arms and the respective body roll path; 3) am not too sure what you mean with this one; 4) yes due to a higher moment of inertia but as long as it fits into the timing of the uw stroke on the other side, this is not an issue... Quick question - where do you coach? Cheers, Andrew -- From: Sean Fowler Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 10:08 PM To: Andrew Hi Andrew, Well, back when we started talking, I think I was still co-coaching over at _________. However, I took some time off when I started having kids of my own. Nowadays, I have three daughters (3, 2, and 1). I have continued to teach swimming in the Boston area and the Worcester area YMCAs in Massachusetts since then (adults and children), and I am now starting to shop around for a team to coach again. But I am finicky. I want something with convenient hours and not too hard on the gas tank. My full-time job is as an attorney, and I could not support my family on a swim coach salary alone. I would in a second if I could. In the meanwhile, I have taught and or coached enough kids in my time that there are a number of kids that frequently seek out my advice. For instance, one such swimmer is _______, who is featured in this article: ____________ So, the short answer is nowhere currently, but I teach swimming in the Worcester area and am looking to keep up my coaching skills since I plan on returning to coaching. And you thought it was a quick question! Why do you ask? Also, with regard to #3: Part of swimming is maintaining a float position in the water. When floating face down, if a part of the body is raised above the level of the water, the body sinks to a new and lower point of flotation (equilibrium). So, if one lifts a head, foot, or arm above the water level, one can also expect to start drinking pool water in large quantities. It seems to me that the raised elbow overarm recovery in freestyle is the compromise of two problems. If one raises the arm entirely, one sinks, and if one drags the arm, one drags. So, the elbow bends to reduce how high up the arm reaches and thereby sinks the swimmer, while at the same time pulling the arm (minus perhaps the very tip of the fingertips) out of the water to minimize drag created by the arm moving forward on or in the water. So, when one slings his arm sideways into a streamline position, doesn't he also increase the amount of downward force being acted upon him? Thanks as always for letting me pick your brain. --Sean (P.S. _______ is a huge fan of Eamon Sullivan. She's even moreso a fan of Phelps, of course, but still a huge fan of Sullivan. And she's not the only one amongst my crew of advisees.) -- Andrew Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 12:08 AM To: Sean Fowler Hi Sean, No worries. Was trying to figure out whether I had met you at a swimming science conference or the like before - mainly because you have quite an analytical mind and a good knowledge of swimming technique (and you knew of Brendan Burkett). I have become terrible at remembering names - can blame it on having the kids as well (and the associated lack of sleep that comes with them). Regarding the section on the buoyancy effects of a straight arm recovery (which is where I think you were heading with it), it is not as simple as that (as with everything is swimming there are trade-off and concurrent advantages and disadvantages with everything you do - its a matter of finding the optimal balance for the individual). There is no buoyancy difference that exists between having a bent arm vrs straight arm recovery as it works on the total volume out of the water. The lateral deviation of the arm mass with the straight arm could create problems in the lateral streamlining but may theoretically also prevent excess body roll by increasing the moment of inertia in that plane which may assist with locking onto the water on the insweep - all pure supposition and to be honest arguments can be made for each way without anyone having the answers (I know I don't)... Still it helps to think through all of the possibilities... Cheers, Andrew -- From: Sean Fowler Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 1:13 AM To: Andrew Andrew, Well, I sincerely thank you for the compliment. It means a great deal to me coming from you. Hmm, that's an interesting consideration. So, the arm would act a bit like an outrigger. Although, I think that the sidearm approach to the overarm recovery also makes for a splashier hand and arm entry, which seems to me to be a disruptive force on the faster-moving water surrounding the swimmer. Thus, I am not yet convinced the the detriments even equal the benefits, let alone outweigh them. Best, --Sean -- Andrew Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 3:11 AM To: Sean Fowler Agreed...

To get the arm bent I like to get swimmers to swim without breathing bring the hand through the water and as they do let the thumb touch the centre of the chest until the hand touches the inner thigh. Make sure the elbow is not dropping during the pull. Then when they breath I get them to touch the body but making sure they don't cross over the black line on the bottom. No elbow dropping please. In very short order the hand moves away from the body touching and ends in the right position.

My guess is that this style incorporates more forward momentum and body rotation with the arm swing. Janet Evans swam very similarly but with a long distance tempo. www.youtube.com/watch I still watch this video in disbelief. It's the strangest looking recovery, but wow is it fast.

it's a bad habit of eamon sullivan's. i talk to his biomechanist every once in a while. below is a conversation we had about this very thing. What I gathered from that exchange is that you have an irrational hang-up about the windmill stroke, and someone who actually works with Sullivan thinks it's fine.