Breaststroke video for critique

breaststroke.info is an excellent site. i highly recommend it. however, for videos of the best doing their thing, you can't beat the Estonian's coverage: swim.ee/.../example_breast.html i have a few critiques: 1) his breaststroke incorporates the new technique of submerging the head into the old style. it's still flat. he needs to roll the shoulders as he dives in, like a butterfly rhythm. 2) i think his legs are doing a plie (www.youtube.com/watch. As breaststroke.info will tell you, the ideal kick is more of a W at the start. Feet should be far apart. based on what i saw from the recent olympics, i'm also starting to think that the W should not be very tightly wound at all. 3) he pulls only to the outside. he should be pulling downward and to the outside. his hands should not travel very far outside the shoulder range, but the elbows will. by pushing somewhat downward, he'll get the lift he needs to power his dive back in. --Sean

Hi - Some things my coach is working on with me (I'm not an expert!) 1. Hands at end of forward arm extension are best in a V position with thumbs down (not up). The thumbs-down position calls into play some big back muscles that will prove useful shortly. 2. On outsweep, hands should be flat, palms facing down, while sculling, to present less surface area to water. It looks like the swimmer in the video, with palms angled out and up almost from start of outsweep, is pushing water. 3. Per Maglischo, once hands are outside shoulders, the palms can rotate outward a bit. (Ernest Maglischo, Swimming Fastest, goes on a bit about hand orientation just before and during catch.) 4. It looks like the elbows are coming a tiny bit too far back, but that may be camera angle. 5. Not clear what feet are doing. In the breaststroke whip kick, "the soles of the feet are the primary propulsive surfaces" (Maglischo, again). I think there should be ankle flexion and outward rotation of the feet, then invert at the ankles and mindfully move water as soles come together, like two hands in a clap. It's a sort of semicircular motion with each foot; feet travel out, back, down, and in. See position at 4:49 in linked video. I didn't see that independent foot action in the video, but it is critical to an effective breaststroke kick. Regards, VB P.S. I have a few video URLs I'll try to post later today. Here's one: a 5-minute tutorial, some slow mo, some diagrams. This helped me a lot: www.youtube.com/watch Note the swimmers have an undulating spine action, so hips come up high before the "lunge."

Well the major thing I see is his insweep on his pull is very weak. In way breastroke pull is like butterfly. You sweep your hands and arms forward then out to a set position somehwat similiar to fly. At that point you sweep out, down, and insweep up the chest. It is a very powerful insweep move.

I am looking forwarding to reading Ande's comments, but for now... He is dropping his elbows. The insweep of the pull should be a bicep curl with the elbows not coming back past the shoulders. My college coach used to have us swim *** pull with an innertube under our arms so we couldn't drop our elbows back. Also, his elbows are breaking the surface of the water during what should be his insweep - he is dragging a lot of air under the surface from his elbows. His kick is a hair late. The arm extension should take place at the same time the kick is finishing. Two links I like: http://www.breaststroke.info/ www.swimming.jp/.../kitajima_door.html

His kick is a hair late. The arm extension should take place at the same time the kick is finishing. Actually, looking at it again, I think his timing is OK. Something about the kick is bugging me though. Maybe it is the lack of an insweep combined with a weak kick. It doesn't look like he has much of a glide at the end of each stroke.

The middle image that haffathot posted above, and what I saw in the video I looked it: when he shoots hands in front, before he initiates outsweep, his thumbs are up. I recommend changing hand position so that thumbs are down before initiating outsweep. Hands together still form a V, but thumbs are at bottom of V. Basically, just flip hands over (they will only flip in one direction - in, with thumbs down - from where they are now). Think of placing backs of hands together rather than palms, then ease up to form the V shape with only thumbs together. Regards, VB

OK, if you look at Ivanov's wind up, his shins and toes move to the outside. This makes a W from toe to knee to groin to knee to toe. If you look at Mark's wind up, his shins are in line with his thighs. If you look at Ivanov's re-entry, he hunches his shoulders in preparation of an actual dive back into the water. If you look at Mark's, you can see that he's just tucking his head and stretching his arms out. --Sean Thanks! I understand the W now, I was a bit fuzzy on that before. VB: I'm afraid I'm confused, I've attached an image from the outsweep where his thumbs appear to be down, is that not what you are recommending?

On his kick, and indeed most of his stroke, doesn't it look at lot like this one from swimee? www.youtube.com/watch I noted many differences. The W shape haffathot describes is pretty clear in both Ivanov and Amanda Beard videos (I like the Amanda Beard clip because it shows the undulating movement of swimmer in water. Ivanov has a slightly wider thigh opening than most). Drill: arms at sides, kick only. Bring heels up to butt --they will actually be outside, in W configuration -- swoosh out in circular motion, whip back in, use soles of feet more for propulsion. Do a length of butt-kicking only. On return, do full stroke. I think if Marc turned his hands over to initiate outsweep, so that thumbs are down, he would lose the sagging elbows when shooting arms forward and simultaneously get shoulder and back armature in position to do the catch and insweep. The outsweep scull moves hands and arms out in position to work. You can try it sitting at a desk: shoot arms forward with thumbs up, then thumbs down. See how different it feels? Regards, VB Something I forgot: hunch shoulders on finishing stroke and preparing to shoot forward.

Although not great videography, here is his breaststroke in front view. www.youtube.com/watch And here is a passby view that shows a problem with his pullout, plus gives a better view of his kick: www.youtube.com/watch Any ideas on what is causing the funky pullout or how to fix it? Here is just the kick from the above at quarter speed: www.youtube.com/watch

Although not great videography, here is his breaststroke in front view. www.youtube.com/watch that video further confirms my prior analysis. his breaststroke definitely is flat and has no undulation. he's definitely doing a plie at the wind-up phase of the kick. he's definitely pulling only to the outside and not pushing downward at all.