I can understand non-swimmers calling the Men's 400 Free Relay the "best swimming relay ever", but I even hear many long time swimmers calling it that too. I'm not saying it isn't (especially in the context of being part of Phelps' 8 gold's quest), but there are others to consider.
Does anyone remember the 1984 Olympic Men's 800 Free Relay in Los Angeles, in particular the anchor leg of USA's Bruce Hayes versus West Germany's Michael Gross? Gross was the 200 LCM Free WR holder, winning the 200 by 1.7 seconds and highly considered not just unbeatable, but untouchable (West Germany also had the 200 Free 3rd place finisher on their relay). Gross was a touch behind Hayes at the start, but quickly made up the difference, with Hayes fading even more. Some how, some way, with the same inner resolve that Lezak displayed, he came back and overtook Gross for a win by .04. I found several references to the final times on the internet, I wish I could find the splits from that race. Here's one result I found: www.databaseolympics.com/.../gamessport.htm
It's easy to say the current relay was a better win, but I think a lot of that is just because it's so fresh in our minds. And I still might pick the current relay as the best myself, but considering that 800 Free Relay, it's not the obvious hands down choice that people make it out to be.
Just my opinions, just my thought. Either way, the USA won them both, and I couldn't be happier!
Joe (joemagiera at ameritech dot net)
joemagiera@ameritech.net
Former Member
What Lezak did was theoretically impossible.
An excellent point (I thought the same thing myself). Based on flat start best times, it really shouldn't have happened. I guess that's part of why it was such a great relay.
Someone else posted the relay start reaction times. That's the first I saw those (I looked all over but couldn't find results with the reaction times). I had no idea they were that close to jumping. In the old days before electronics could determine whether someone jumped or not, I'm sure there would have been more than a few start officials that would have DQ'ed one of our guys, if not the first close one, surely the second close one, if nothing more than "on principle" for two close jumps.
Did they have reaction time statistics back in 1984? I'd be very interested to see that (and I'd still like to see their splits from that race if someone can find them).
Joe
Women's 1976.Shirley Babashaw swimming down the E German steroided cheater was amazing.Everyone of the US women swam faster than predicted.Unbelievable!!!!
Former Member
But in this case, Lezak was chasing down the world record holder (at least before te race started), a man who had swum the fastest split in history in the prelims.
For accuracy sake, it was Bousquet who swam the fastest split in history in prelims.
Former Member
I've never seen a race that compares to the 2008 relay. What Lezak did was theoretically impossible.
SI compared it to mothers lifting cars off of their babies.
Former Member
I wonder what kind of boost Lezak got from riding Bernard's wake? In the 400 free relay Lezak split 46.06. In the medley he split 46.76. In the individual event he went 47.67.
Personally, I thought Bernard was kind of dumb for swimming anywhere near the United States' lane. Hubris?
You might find it interesting that my friend—a non-swimmer who is very knowledgeable about sports—had to try to argue with someone on another board who claimed that drafting provided no benefit in swimming. :frustrated:
How soon we forget? No one under 30 y/o has any specific recollection of the event
In the words of my little brother, "True 'dat"
There were olympics in 1984? :mooning:
Joe,
I was doing the same thing in '84 that I was doing during the 08 4x100. Screaming at the TV. It was a fantastic race by Hayes but, IMO, slightly different than the boys of 08's race. First, it's in 84 it was the 200, which gives opportunities to make up time by having better walls, better splitting, etc. 2nd, the American men hit the water about a half body length ahead in 84 while the 08 team was slightly more than a half a body length behind.
Not to take away from Hayes' swim, it was a fantastic leg but for me, seeing Lezak down to Bernard by about a half a body length with 35m to go and to actually SEE Jason digging in and pulling closer with each stroke was something amazing.
In both relay examples, the anchor leg of the winning team dove in first. They were resilient to hold off the other team, but the 400 free relay in 2008 was an exact reversal.
In 1984 and in 2000, the winning anchor-leg swimmers (Bruce Hayes and Ian Thorpe) were not considered to be faster than the men chasing them (Michael Gross and Gary Hall Jr.). So, yes, the winners dug deep to hold off the superior swimmer (just as Klete Keller did in 2004).
But in this case, Lezak was chasing down the world record holder (at least before te race started), a man who had swum the fastest split in history in the prelims. No one at the elite level can chase down someone that's a body length in front -- unless the man they are chasing splits 21.6 and hugs the lane line. It was sheer triumph of the will.
Former Member
not to underscore the race in any way, but was bernard really talking a lot of trash? was it just one comment that got blown out of proportion and got the media all crazy about it? i haven't seen comments anywhere online, but then again maybe i'm not looking hard enough.
Former Member
It wasn't smack talk by "The French," it was smack talk by Bernard. I didn't hear about any comments by other members of the French relay team.
Another thing to remember is we're looking at this from an American perspective. I bet if you polled, for example, Australians on the subject of best swimming race ever they'd come up with an entirely different list.
Uh....smack by one is still smack. And Bernard said they'd smash the Americans. He didn't say "I think we'll beat the Americans." His quote was far more outrageous.
And I like and respect Australian swimming and my Australian friends - but I don't really care what their list is. This is the site for United States Masters Swimming, not Worldwide Masters Swimming.
