Please critique

I have that same camera. The issue is with your basic underwater cameras at best you can get about 10-15 feet of someone swimming at race pace as it is really difficult to stay on the swimmer. What I meant when I referred to underwater camera is a boom mounted camera with an external screen where it is much easier to remain centered on the swimmer. I too have that camera! With a good set of fins the cameraman should be able to get an ok shot of you as you overtake him. While it is ideal to get a tracking shot of a whole length even a few stroke cycles can help point out some of the more prominent issues. And many issues will show up at less than top speed as well. Well, I have had no problem finding problems with my stokes anyway! :o I have been wondering if I could cobble together a way to mount the camera on the end of a pole, and just learn by practice how to keep it trained on the swimmer. I've thought about just using my tripod upside down, but I'm not sure how well it would stand up to regular immersion. I would also like to get a weight belt or the equivalent to make it easier to stay underwater, particularly for shots from directly underneath. Sometimes it's better to make due with what one has than to hold out for the ideal solution!

I have 2 of these cgi.ebay.ca/UNDERWATER-Video-Camera-Popular-Color12pcs-Led-Light-24_W0QQitemZ280258927206QQihZ018QQcategoryZ4703QQtcZphotoQQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem I also have a Stylus 1030SW good for 10 meters depth.

I bought the "Swiming Faster Freestyle" video with David Marsh (coach at Auburn), and a couple of interesting things struck me. Rada Owen was the demonstrating swimmer. Marsh would talk some about high elbows, but Owens' elbow was definitely not very high. Her catch is somewhat of a hybrid between the EVF and straight arm pull, where the upper arm is more sloped and thus the bent elbow occurs but much lower in the water. I understand that the main reason for the higher elbow EVF is to begin anchoring farther in front of you than you would otherwise. I'm curious how many of you catch like Rada. It certainly lookes easier. Kind of odd that they chose her to demonstrate, while Marsh would show a higher elbow when demonstrating outside the pool. The other thing I noticed is that they tend to teach a little more of a swing or throw to the arm recovery. One drill in particular which caught my attention was the catch and throw drill. I've always thought of my recovery as a more deliberate raise the elbow, move it forward, then put it in the water type of thing. But it kind of makes sense to have a little bit of a throw to it, allowing you to create some momentum over that catch. Am I correct in this thinking? I feel like up until now even when I do get a reasonable catch I'm having to pull back more rather than just riding momentum. I'm off these next couple days so I'll try to get some video of myself. A little bit of a lightbulb came on my last swim (couple days ago), and I'm anxious to see if you guys feel I'm in the right direction.

The difference with land based versus water based movements is that when you jump you throw your arms up while your feet are still pressing on the SOLID ground. If you swung your arms up after you feet left the ground the would reduce the height of your jump. Unless you launch your arm by pressing against the water you are essentially doing the recovery in the air and as your muscles throw the arm forward an equal and opposite force is pulling backward on your shoulder and body, so you slow down when you start the recovery and then speed up at the end as the momentum in your arm pulls your shoulder forward. In any case, the magnitude of the forces involved in your arm momentum are going to be relatively small in relation to the forces in your pull, I would concentrate your efforts there. I know this is becoming a physics discussion :laugh2:, but here's my rebuttal. I think that the catch, while not pressing against solid ground, is analagous to the solid ground in a jump. Tomorrow I will do an experiment. I'll lay in the water on my side, both hands on my hips. Then I'll swing the top arm forward and see if there's any movement.

well, ideally, you want the timing of your overarm recovery to match up with the timing of your pull, so that you can ensure smooth and consistent perpetual motion. thus, as pull times get faster, recoveries must equally get faster. the bent elbow recovery promotes smoother entry, for one thing, and, for another, it promotes a quicker approach to the catch point. if you sidearm your overarm recovery, the curvilinear path that your arm takes will take longer to follow, theoretically, than the more straight path followed by a bent-arm recovery. however, it is my opinion that there is a bit of range here. if your elbow is bent too high and your hand kept too close to your body, then the motion will lose its fluidity as the recovery becomes a mechanical transition from unnatural arm positions. thus, it seems to me that the best course of action is somewhere between a sidearm recovery and a very high-elbow recovery. There's been some debate in these forums regarding bent-arm to straight-arm, but for me it is definitely bent-arm with the advantage, but the question is how bent. If your hand is too far out or too far in, you have a slower recovery, so you need to find that golden mean where the overarm recovery path is fluid and natural but not too long a distance to travel, either. In the context of Rada Owen, I haven't seen a video of her, but I would guess that she simply has accustomed herself to a bent-elbow path within that range that is closer to the sidearm side of things than to the highest-elbow. --Sean

You will find that there are many different ideas about how to swim correctly. Have a look at a swim smooth video and it could show you a different version of swimming technique. www.swimsmooth.com/freeview.htm

if you sidearm your overarm recovery, the curvilinear path that your arm takes will take longer to follow, theoretically, than the more straight path followed by a bent-arm recovery. I'm not sure why you say the straight arm recovery is theoretically slower. The upper arm will follow essentially the same path. Your hand follows a longer path but it is just along for the ride on the upper arm so it follows that longer path at a faster speed ending up in the same place at the same time. Stroke rate has never been limited by recovery time anyway, the pull and body roll are always the limiting factors. If anything the straight arm pull may require slightly more energy to accelerate, but again, that's not usually a limiting factor. Taruky: on the discrepancy between what coaches say to do and what swimmers actually do Jonty Skinner wrote an interesting article on the effect of scy training on technique, including this quote: Granted there might be a number of different ways to describe this process, but without a doubt the majority of coaches in world would agree on one fact. That the anchor or catch mechanics should involve an elbow position that is higher than the wrist/hand position. Looking at figure 1, coaches might argue as to the specific angles of the joints, but I believe all might agree that the upper and lower arm components would be on distinctly different planes. However, after reviewing underwater footage of hundreds of swimmers, I find that the majority don’t employ this kind of technique at all. After continuing to ask coaches to describe their opinion of the catch or anchor position I continued to find a huge discrepancy between what coaches were describing, and what was actually occurring in the water. www.usaswimming.org/.../ViewMiscArticle.aspx (emphasis added by me) The article does explain why the bent elbow is better for lcm and why swimmers tend to use the straighter arm technique when training scy.

Someone around here has a quote from Bruce Lee about being conscious of what one is doing being a bad thing, and man is it true! I was thinking about the catch today and it was one of my worst swims in a long time!

It makes you certifiable, it is called catch 22. Someone around here has a quote from Bruce Lee about being conscious of what one is doing being a bad thing, and man is it true! I was thinking about the catch today and it was one of my worst swims in a long time!

Someone around here has a quote from Bruce Lee about being conscious of what one is doing being a bad thing, and man is it true! I was thinking about the catch today and it was one of my worst swims in a long time! That's funny, it is so true. I have spent months working on my catch and it really kind of hit me a little in the last few days and I'm not thinking too hard about it. Suddenly I feel like I'm holding onto water. I didn't get a chance to videotape myself, but will tomorrow for sure. I've been doing a lot of closed fist swimming, and I'm amazed how well it really works. After doing that, you feel like you're pushing peanutbutter when you open your hand again. In one of the earlier posts, I believe it was George who said I look like I'm in a hurry to get my hand out of the water. I didn't really understand what he meant until the last couple days. Now that I feel what holding on is, it makes sense. I'm not sure how high my elbow is (I have to see the film), but I know for a fact I'm feeling the water better than ever. If I could just relax and improve my breathing. I still find myself getting tired too quickly. I've tried everything from taking deeper breaths, shallower breaths, belly breaths, barely getting my mouth out of the water...ugh