I will start with breastroke- Gary Marshall(25-29) 1:02 high in the hundred 2:16 in the 200, David Guthrie(45-49) 1:07 in the 100 2:27 in the 200 Robert
Strand(60-64) 33.41 50 *** 1:15 100 ***. Between them 6 world records Marshall 1, Guthrie 2 and Strand 3. There are plenty more so add to the thread!!!!!
In butterfly “Both arms must be brought forward over the water and pulled back simultaneously.” Brought forward over the water has for many years been interpreted as the elbows need to recover over the water. Doug has been disqualified for this same infraction at nationals for years. The problem is that at many local meets, the stroke judges don’t make the call; which can lead to confusion.
Except that that defination is wrong. It is any part of the arm, which is defined as from slightly below the shoulder to the wrist.
The wording could be a little better, but the intent is for the pull to always be backward and the recovery forward out of the water ("...recover over the water"). I believe Mr. Strong does part of his recovery underwater and that's illegal. It's not so much that he isn't getting his entire arm out of the water.
That's my take, anyway. In any case, DQ or not, I've got nothing but respect for him for swimming the 200 fly.
In the officials' meeting before our meets we always have a discussion of the interpretation of this rule and to be consistant within our LSC, it is always emphasized that the top of the arm has to only be above the surface of the water. There is no requirement that the arm must be entirely out of the water. But like Paul said it must be the entire length of the arm from "slightly below the shoulder to the wrist". I have seen Doug swim the fly in several meets and as much as I admire him for attempting these longer events, I would have disqualified him each time.
I'm with you there. You know, I find it curious how people like to follow every rule, even when the rule is flawed.
You aren't required to follow every rule. You can choose to be DQ's just as easily as you can choose to follow the rules.
Except that that defination is wrong. It is any part of the arm, which is defined as from slightly below the shoulder to the wrist.Paul, I know the definition is correct. I pulled it directly from our rule book.
Now my understanding of the interpretation may be wrong. I can’t seem to find the official interpretation of the rule. Can you point me to the source of “It is any part of the arm, which is defined as from slightly below the shoulder to the wrist.”???
but if you want to go ahead and insult him, I guess that's your choice too.Good segue…
Best performance in on-mike insults again goes to Mark Gill; The mouth of Masters Swimming. Only Mark would throw insults at a swimmer, as the swimmer is being wheeled off to the ambulance!
Paul, I know the definition is correct. I pulled it directly from our rule book.
Now my understanding of the interpretation may be wrong. I can’t seem to find the official interpretation of the rule. Can you point me to the source of “It is any part of the arm, which is defined as from slightly below the shoulder to the wrist.”???
Well, that's a problem. What is your arm? The commonly accepted definition (which is NOT written in any rule book that I know of) is any part of a human's upper extremity that contains the word 'arm'. So the upper arm, which starts at the shoulder and ends at the elbow works and the lower arm, which starts at the elbow and ends at the wrist works also.
But in that respect you are right, there is not a clear definition of what your arm is in any swimming rule book. For the last 3 years of MCSL, YMCA and USA officiating it has been briefed to me (and I have briefed it) that as long as any part of each arm breaks the surface of the water, then it is a legal recovery and that the arm is defined as from just below the shoulder to just above the wrist.
From the USA Rulebook: "Both arms must be brought forward over
the water and pulled back simultaneously".
Of course, in all things, you must read the rule and enforce what the rule states. Note: it does not specify what portion of the arm must be above the water. Nor does it say exactly how far above the water it must be. So the only way to interpret this rule, AS WRITTEN, is that if any portion of each arm breaks the surface of the water, then it is a legal recovery.
I'm with you there. You know, I find it curious how people like to follow every rule, even when the rule is flawed. In butterfly, if your arms aren't all the way out of the water you'll swim slower. There is no reasonable advantage to an alternative stroke pattern due to restrictions in range of motion, or limitations in age. Therefore, this rule should be grandfathered.
Except that that defination is wrong. It is any part of the arm, which is defined as from slightly below the shoulder to the wrist.
Is this in reference to Doug Strong? He probably did the best he could, but if you want to go ahead and insult him, I guess that's your choice too.
You aren't required to follow every rule. You can choose to be DQ's just as easily as you can choose to follow the rules.
