Kitajima

Did or did not his dolphin kicks happen BEFORE he started his arm pull on both the start and the turn? Because I sure saw that it happened before his hands started to move. Is this legal under FINA rules? Because it sure as heck isn't under USA swimming rules.
Parents
  • Former Member
    Former Member
    I'm a newbie here, but had to jump in after seeing this thread. I am both a swim official, and a trainer of swim officials. I have been involved in swim officiating as a starter and referee for a decade. I apologize if my submission is a bit technical. I was stunned as I watched the semifinals on TV. I can only speak for Kitajima's semifinal swim, and then only off the blocks, but to my view - thank you underwater cameras - Kitajima's start was illegal and he should have been DQ'ed. I deal mainly with US Swimming technical rules. Having said this, FINA and US swimming have virtually identical interpretations of a Breaststroke start. As a cycle stroke, the pull must come first, followed by the kick. The initial pull and kick (off the blocks or a wall) are both anomalies. The first breaststroke pull can extend beyond the hips, and the first breaststroke kick can be preceded by a butterfly kick. The interpretation from both governing bodies has been that the butterfly kick cannot commence before the initiation of the pull, since the butterfly kick must be followed by the breaststroke kick (without an intervening breaststroke pull). There is some slight controversy over when a pull is initiated. Some trainers will teach that a pull begins when the hands begin to pull water. For others, the pull begins when the arms are at their farthest apart (setting up for the pull toward the ***). For virtually all breaststrokers these two events occur at the same time. Please note that neither interpretation considers the mere separation of the hands from each other (as at the end of the glide) as commencing the "pull". Such an interpretation would have unintended consequences that could create havoc, leading to incomplete stroke cycle violations during the two-hand touch at the wall. My interpretation of Kitajima was that off the blocks he used the butterfly kick to extend the glide. It looked exactly like what a butterflyer or even a freestyler might do while submerged, except he limited himself to the one downward kick. During most, if not all, of the kick his hands remained extended, together, in front of his body. After the butterfly kick he performed his first pull, his breaststroke kick, and surfaced promptly for his second pull. I cannot speak for what other swimmers did, as I wasn't able to record the event. Since the TV program spotlighted Kitajima I was focused on what he did. And I don't care if some other swimmers did it as well; multiple wrongs don't make a right, and every other swimmer that did it should also have been DQ'ed. I'd also like to mention, in response to a few entries in this thread, that there is nothing in the rules that states that an infraction must be a benefit to the swimmer before it can be called. Having said this, world class athletes rarely incorporate any element that doesn't have an advantage to them. The call itself is not the easiest for the turn official at the block end to call, at least not during the start of the race. These officials are supposed to be back from the blocks at the start. They move up (typically at least two steps) after the start. The officials must contend with splash from the swimmers, and turbulence in the water where the swimmer has entered (and where the swimmers legs are). And then there is always the possibility of glare. I didn't get a split, but the alleged infraction occurred quickly, within the first few seconds of the swim. So it is not an easy call to make, especially under the pressure of dealing with a renowned swimmer at the Olympics. My guess is that the swimmer(s) are more subtle with this situation in the subsequent laps. It will be interesting to see what FINA (and ultimately US Swimming) will do. I have been in touch with a few US rule makers, and at this point they are non-committal. They continue to say that the rules do not allow the butterfly kick to precede the first pull, and that Kitajima must not have initiated his butterfly kick before his pull. Most haven't had a chance to review the start of the race, but my guess is that video evidence will prove otherwise (If anyone has a hi-def version please let me know!). FINA will likely respond with a "clarification" only if the furor grows. Unfortunately, politics are sometimes more important than the rules, and any clarification may become a modification. We've already seen a recent example of this. FINA may decide to allow the butterfly kick before, during, or after the first pull as a practical matter, allowing the stroke to evolve. If so, at least this will make it fairer for all competitors, which should be the ultimate goal of any regulation. I very much doubt FINA will ever admit that this was a blown call. That would be too damaging to them, and to one of the sport's superstars, a superstar who has never considered his actions to be controversial, much less illegal.
Reply
  • Former Member
    Former Member
    I'm a newbie here, but had to jump in after seeing this thread. I am both a swim official, and a trainer of swim officials. I have been involved in swim officiating as a starter and referee for a decade. I apologize if my submission is a bit technical. I was stunned as I watched the semifinals on TV. I can only speak for Kitajima's semifinal swim, and then only off the blocks, but to my view - thank you underwater cameras - Kitajima's start was illegal and he should have been DQ'ed. I deal mainly with US Swimming technical rules. Having said this, FINA and US swimming have virtually identical interpretations of a Breaststroke start. As a cycle stroke, the pull must come first, followed by the kick. The initial pull and kick (off the blocks or a wall) are both anomalies. The first breaststroke pull can extend beyond the hips, and the first breaststroke kick can be preceded by a butterfly kick. The interpretation from both governing bodies has been that the butterfly kick cannot commence before the initiation of the pull, since the butterfly kick must be followed by the breaststroke kick (without an intervening breaststroke pull). There is some slight controversy over when a pull is initiated. Some trainers will teach that a pull begins when the hands begin to pull water. For others, the pull begins when the arms are at their farthest apart (setting up for the pull toward the ***). For virtually all breaststrokers these two events occur at the same time. Please note that neither interpretation considers the mere separation of the hands from each other (as at the end of the glide) as commencing the "pull". Such an interpretation would have unintended consequences that could create havoc, leading to incomplete stroke cycle violations during the two-hand touch at the wall. My interpretation of Kitajima was that off the blocks he used the butterfly kick to extend the glide. It looked exactly like what a butterflyer or even a freestyler might do while submerged, except he limited himself to the one downward kick. During most, if not all, of the kick his hands remained extended, together, in front of his body. After the butterfly kick he performed his first pull, his breaststroke kick, and surfaced promptly for his second pull. I cannot speak for what other swimmers did, as I wasn't able to record the event. Since the TV program spotlighted Kitajima I was focused on what he did. And I don't care if some other swimmers did it as well; multiple wrongs don't make a right, and every other swimmer that did it should also have been DQ'ed. I'd also like to mention, in response to a few entries in this thread, that there is nothing in the rules that states that an infraction must be a benefit to the swimmer before it can be called. Having said this, world class athletes rarely incorporate any element that doesn't have an advantage to them. The call itself is not the easiest for the turn official at the block end to call, at least not during the start of the race. These officials are supposed to be back from the blocks at the start. They move up (typically at least two steps) after the start. The officials must contend with splash from the swimmers, and turbulence in the water where the swimmer has entered (and where the swimmers legs are). And then there is always the possibility of glare. I didn't get a split, but the alleged infraction occurred quickly, within the first few seconds of the swim. So it is not an easy call to make, especially under the pressure of dealing with a renowned swimmer at the Olympics. My guess is that the swimmer(s) are more subtle with this situation in the subsequent laps. It will be interesting to see what FINA (and ultimately US Swimming) will do. I have been in touch with a few US rule makers, and at this point they are non-committal. They continue to say that the rules do not allow the butterfly kick to precede the first pull, and that Kitajima must not have initiated his butterfly kick before his pull. Most haven't had a chance to review the start of the race, but my guess is that video evidence will prove otherwise (If anyone has a hi-def version please let me know!). FINA will likely respond with a "clarification" only if the furor grows. Unfortunately, politics are sometimes more important than the rules, and any clarification may become a modification. We've already seen a recent example of this. FINA may decide to allow the butterfly kick before, during, or after the first pull as a practical matter, allowing the stroke to evolve. If so, at least this will make it fairer for all competitors, which should be the ultimate goal of any regulation. I very much doubt FINA will ever admit that this was a blown call. That would be too damaging to them, and to one of the sport's superstars, a superstar who has never considered his actions to be controversial, much less illegal.
Children
No Data