Interestingly 50 FR - 15th of 135 and it's not near my best event.
I rank better among USS in shorter distances and I'm very slow in 200s and above. I think that's b/c the Masters "less is more" approach is fine in 100s and under. Not so good on 200s and bad for distance.
I have the exact same experience. In USS meets I am significantly better in 100s compared to 200s and in masters it is probably the opposite.
I don't think it is just training volume, I think age plays a role, sorry to say.
There is a 1:45 backstroker on the affiliated USS team where I swim masters. We both recently did a 10 x 100 on 2:00 backstroke test set. I averaged less than 1 second slower than him...despite the fact that he trounces me in meets at any distance. (And he was spent after the set, I don't think he was holding back.)
But in meets he can step it up in a way I no longer am able to do.
Another anecdote...today I swam with the U of Richmond college women's team. The coach is very into HR training. There was a set of 200s where he wanted the swimmers to have a minimum HR of 176, and it was clear from his comments he was expecting something like 80% effort on the set (the main set was yet to come).
I had to laugh: if I went ALL OUT I would reach 176, but my max HR is somewhere in the low 180s. But I remember hitting 200 quite readily in HS...that sort of physiological difference just HAS to be important in a meet, and no amount of training seems to change my max HR.
Well, I don't usually think of myself as either a "chick" or a "lady," but I do like the muscly-arm look on myself and on other women. I know I moaned elsewhere about jackets not fitting my arms and mid-back, but I'm not about to lay off upper-body workouts just for that. I love having visible biceps, triceps, lats, and deltoids; and I love that my waist is small in comparison to my shoulders and hips. If I lost some subcutaneous fat I would like my look even more because I would have more definition, although then I would probably get cold too easily.
Anyway, I have only ever seen a few women swimmers that I thought looked unattractively "bulky," and all but one of them I can think of turned out, unsurprisingly, to be on :roids:.
I don't have any problem with definition or looking athletic. I'm pretty defined. But definition is somewhat different than "bulk." Bulk just sounds horrible. I'd prefer more definition and no bulk or hulk.
Chris:
I do reverse sit ups all the time with weights. You can do the same exercise on each side too, to work the obliques. It's harder if you lift one foot off the ground while doing this. I also like doing decline reverse crunches for the lower abs. (Lie flat on a decline bench with your arms holding on behind you for support, and hips and knees bent 90 degrees with calves parallel to the bench. Contract your abs and curl your hips up off the bench. Lower your hips until your calves are again parallel to the bench.) I use the bosu a lot too -- do hammers on it, crunches, superman streamlines, lunges with one foot on the bosu holding a 10 pound weight in each hand, etc. If you don't have a med ball partner, you can also have fun by placing your feet on the sides of the bosu and jumping up and onto the bosu. Can't do heavy weights on the bosu though. Also, crunches on a bench are harder than on the floor because they require more balance, especially if you're sideways on the bench, i.e., you're not using the length of the bench but are at a perpendicular angle with only your butt on the bench. I think core work is much more fun than weights. But that's me.
Woa. Mr. Fort and Mr. Man must be conversing.
They aren't the only ones. My daughter (13) told me today that a group of guys routinely refer to her as "man" at school. (She's buff like me, and about my size or thinner.) Apparently, middle school guys (despite Title IX) still aren't used to strong athletic women ... Argh.
I told Mr. Fort I intended to lift heavier, and I saw a look of horror cross his face. :eek:
Hulk, I can't keep a weight log. That would make it not a fun, sustainable activity. I barely keep track of my swimming and never add up yardage. Same with food. I'd feel like I was on the nazi diet plan if I kept track. I know I've obsessive, but I just can't obsess about everything.
Woa. Mr. Fort and Mr. Man must be conversing. When I took my husband to a masters meet w/ me in Florida and he saw all the people in fastskins (and you could not tell who was a man and who was a woman) he blurted out without thinking, "I don't want you getting too butch." Bad comment in sooo many ways, I know. I went nuts. He apologized (he's usually very good and does not say things like that). It was his knee jerk reaction to seeing everyone on deck.
I keep too many logs of everything. It IS OCD. Don't start Fort. I think I'll stick w/ my fun first. And second. And third. Good exercise fourth. Rankings - 100th.
Hulk, good posts. Thanks. I'd like to PM you later. In the weight room, I do your #3 Endurance training only. 3 Sets of 12 on many machines/ exercises.
Sorry on my "average" comment. Was going purely on the numbers listed on the psych sheets.
200 Fly - seeded 26 of 51
400 FR - 40 of 78
800 FR - 22 of 40
Ho hum. Really though, this is good for me. I am annoyed and angry at being in the middle. I hope to use that in the pool.
Interestingly 50 FR - 15th of 135 and it's not near my best event.
I rank better among USS in shorter distances and I'm very slow in 200s and above. I think that's b/c the Masters "less is more" approach is fine in 100s and under. Not so good on 200s and bad for distance.
Drats that age thing! I was wondering where it fit into the equation. Really makes sense what you said Chris. I too seem to be able to hang well in practices with the kids. But they can really turn it on in the meets.
But. . . I think for now, I will just pretend to ignore it just like I try and ignore gender when I swim. Ignorance is bliss. :woot:
Paul, you officially crush me in every event you swim. :bow: I just looked up your times. So about this weightlifting thing. . . :weightlifter: Guess I had better start taking it more seriously. Is there room for a Ms. Hulk? Cause if I start sweating in the gym . . . there's no telling what I will turn into! :rofl:
Have a USS meet this weekend. I'm concerned as I'm dead tired. Like that's a surprise. Should prove interesting. The psych sheets are scary. I'm an average swimmer. :doh: I think it's good for me though. Should be interesting to see if I fall apart mentally (due to being tired). Or perhaps I'll show I'm a bit better than a creampuff. Maybe a jelly donut. Should be fun regardless and I know I'll get to see some fast swimming.
Crush you? Nah, I'm faster in the shorter stuff because I'm taller and stronger. But do not sell your self short. Crush you, bah. And an 'average swimmer?' puh-leeze. Triple AAA times in most of your events? And just a fraction of quad-A? Once again you are short selling yourself. Don't do it again, or I'll have to hurt you. :duel:
But as for strength training. Yes, anyone can benefit from a solid, well structured resistance training routine. Does this mean that you have to sweat like a dog for 2 hours a day, lifting small cars? Nope. But it does mean that you have to continually challenge your body to adapt.
In any training, one key fact must always be addressed and that is the human body's huge capacity for adapting to physiological stress. And any form of movement, be it walking, riding a bike, lifting, etc. is a form of physiological stress. So to keep the body from adapting and becoming static, we need to keep increasing and/or changing the stress.
I'm using stress here to represent positive stress, otherwise as eustress. Avoidance of negative stress, distress is a major goal.
There is a core belief that resistance training falls into three types. These are not all inclusive and everyone's body responds differently but these are pretty good guidelines.
1) Strength training - 4-6 reps of 3 sets using 80-85% of 1RM (one rep max) using longer rest periods between sets. Goal is to maximize overall gains in muscle power and density while minimizing overall growth.
2) Hypertrophy - 6-8 reps, 3-4 sets using 65-75% of 1RM - using slightly shorter rest periods, goal is to maximize production of muscle fibers in the shortest possible time. main focus is to increase total muscle fiber size (hypertrophty).
3) Endurance training - 12-15 reps per set, 2-3 sets per exercise using 50-60% or 1RM with very little rest between sets. Goal here is to maximize stored energy (glycogen) in muscle fibers and to speed the body's response in eliminating fatigue toxins.
Now, all three training types will have the following benefits:
1) Increase muscle fiber density - increased strength
2) Increased muscle fiber quantity - increased size
3) Increased long term efficiency - increased endurance
4) Increased short-term efficiency - increased power
But the difference between them is the difference in emphasis on the primary goal. Note: PRIMARY goal. Will you increase the quantity of muscle fibers while strength training? Yes. Will you see an increase in muscle density while bodybuilding? Yes. And so on. But you will have the BEST chance of maximizing your strength gains following at strength training routine that you would following an edurance training one. And that is the heart of the matter. Working smarter not harder.
Which brings up this key point. To be able to work smarter you HAVE to track your progress and that means that you HAVE TO keep a log of your activities. This gives you the following benefits:
1) You can track your progress which can help motivate.
2) You have a historical record of your progress so you can see what exercises worked and what didn't.
3) You can see when you start to plateau in your training. These plateaus generally indicate one of two things: overtraining (the eustress is becoming distress) or adaptation (your body has adapted to the eustress you have been applying and is becoming static)
More to follow
Paul
1) Strength training - 4-6 reps of 3 sets using 80-85% of 1RM (one rep max) using longer rest periods between sets. Goal is to maximize overall gains in muscle power and density while minimizing overall growth.
2) Hypertrophy - 6-8 reps, 3-4 sets using 65-75% of 1RM - using slightly shorter rest periods, goal is to maximize production of muscle fibers in the shortest possible time. main focus is to increase total muscle fiber size (hypertrophty).
3) Endurance training - 12-15 reps per set, 2-3 sets per exercise using 50-60% or 1RM with very little rest between sets. Goal here is to maximize stored energy (glycogen) in muscle fibers and to speed the body's response in eliminating fatigue toxins.
Paul,
This is my standard lifting pattern. I usually do about 10 different lifts per ~45 min session, 3x a week.... always the same circuit:
3 sets of 10 reps per set. 1st set 60-70%, short rest, 2nd set 70-80%, short rest, 3rd set 80-90%. Each session, choose one lift of my 10 to test max with a 4th and 5th set at 100-110% (even more rest and ok to be 4-6 reps at max). Based on results, reset next lifting session to new baseline.
I have really liked this pattern, because it gets me warmed up, requires greater strength under greater fatigue, and I test my max consistently.
Any comments?
AL
Paul,
This is my standard lifting pattern. I usually do about 10 different lifts per ~45 min session, 3x a week.... always the same circuit:
3 sets of 10 reps per set. 1st set 60-70%, short rest, 2nd set 70-80%, short rest, 3rd set 80-90%. Each session, choose one lift of my 10 to test max with a 4th and 5th set at 100-110% (even more rest and ok to be 4-6 reps at max). Based on results, reset next lifting session to new baseline.
I have really liked this pattern, because it gets me warmed up, requires greater strength under greater fatique, and I test my max consistently.
Any comments?
AL
if it works for you, great but it just seems to me that you are muddling the mixture a bit by doing a one bourbon, one scotch and one beer kind of workout. My recommendation would be to change your routine for the next 4 weeks to a more strength based one, track your results and then compare the two. If you can do a 3rd set of 10 reps and it's your '80-90%' then your 100%, i.e 1RM is higher than you think. You also mentioned 110%? Are these forced reps? Negatives? Half reps? Not sure how you could do 110% of your 1RM otherwise.
Also, I rarely maxed out, maybe once a month if that, even when I was competing so I'm really hesitant to suggest that. For others, there are charts that can give you an estimated 1RM based upon the number of reps you can do. One can be found here:
www.criticalbench.com/weight-training-chart.htm
But when referring to 1RM, that is the absolutely maximum that you can lift while observing proper form. So for example, say your max bench press is 225 pounds. Then your target weight for your sets if you're following a strength based plan is 180-190 pounds. Everyone is slightly different so that is just a guideline. If you find that at 190 you can still do all three sets of 6 reps then add 5 pounds.
But hey, once again, that's just me and in all thing YMMV (your milage may vary). So if you feel that it works for you, go for it. At the heart of it, that is all that matters, creating a sustainable, enjoyable routine.
Paul
Not sure how you could do 110% of your 1RM otherwise.
I never do 1RM... ever... I guess my max testing would be 5RM using those terms. Looking at the chart referenced, that means 87.5%, so I still have room for 10% without going over 100%. :wiggle:
My other percentages for sets are based on 10RM, so my numbers are really messed.... nice chart, though.
I'll consider the mixed drink theory.
Thanks. :roids:
Hi Paul -
I like your list - have a question though - what will doing 8-12 reps at 60% but lifting at maximum speed do for you ?
Risk connective tissue injuries.
There is a school of thought that empasizes speed lifting as a way of maximizing power. But then I was never heavily involved in sports that required maximal full body power/speed moves such as football, shot put, discuss, etc.
Varying the pace of lift is another tool in the training arsenal but, imo, when you are practically throwing the weight around, then you are lifting too fast. But the training should match the sport. Here is a helpful site that can help to explain in better words than I can.
www.brianmac.co.uk/weight.htm
Paul
