How much aerobic work for sprinters?

If that is the focus the training is extremely different than someone who wants to "extend" their reach to the 100, 200 & 500 where more emphasis on aerobic base is needed. Jazz is the perfect example, blazing fast 50 speed...not so concerned with the 100...and in his case a focus on high intensity pool work and weight training is more important. I'll just say that this is one of the reasons I don't like to compete over 50 meters. The races hurt, the training hurts. Pain is aversive for me, unlike some of you sickos.

I was joking, of course. I saw the letter too. Heck, I started swimming masters based on my participation in a beer relay (sans vomiting). I did laugh at the comment about the Stanford team doing this set with wine coolers and the completely appropriate response questioning their manhood. Chris, My apoloizes for rushing to judgement on your post. John

In response to the thread title.. Based upon the results of Jazz and the testimony of Paul Smith, I would say, not much. Mike Bottom, on the first link provided by Paul, seems to disagree with that statement. Paul may not consider himself a sprinter but he is the world record holder in several 50s...doing aerobic work didn't seem to hurt him, at least! In my opinion, it is good to do for general health regardless of its impact (or lack) on swimming times. Fort, in my college days :oldman: the only 50 was the 50 free and all 100s were also considered sprints. Now we have all these 50s with world records, the 100IM, and 200 free and medley relays at NCAAs. (I think it is due to Title IX.) Ande, I wonder if your formulas are more applicable to younger swimmers, maybe it changes with age. For example, I notice that at USA-S meets I tend to do better against the kids in the 100 back but at masters meets I am probably considered better at the 200 back (in short course, anyway). Some of it is due to the difference in training volume, of course, but maybe not all. (I have definitely noticed that my 200 fly -- once my best event -- has been the event most affected by age and I cannot seem to reverse that at all. Really sucks getting older.)

the point is the mark of a middle distance swimmer is take their 100 time double it then add 6 seconds and you have a time close to their 200 time the mark of a sprinter is take their 100 time double it then add 12 to 16 seconds and you have a time close to their 200 time I don't think that applies evenly across all strokes, nor across SCY/SCM/LCM. Here are my numbers for SCY: Freestyle - 7.28, Backstroke - 8.23, Breaststroke :rofl: - 11.40, Butterfly - 11.94, IM - 5.65 :confused:

I've read through this thread pretty quickly, and I think there are some good opinions throughout.... HOWEVER, I don't think that one specific opinion on how to train works best for every swimmer every year. Don't get me wrong: I'm a big advocate of a higher percentage of speed work at speed, especially for sprinters, with recovery built into the process. I also think that in order to make progress and maintain some kind of aerobic base for something longer than a 50, even sprinters should step back once every 4 or 5 training cycles and do something with an aerobic kind of goal in mind. This not only provides some variation in the training and prevents boredom, but it also gives the muscle groups that are pushed by high volumes of speed work some time to recover for the long term. At Bullets, we face a different kind of challenge: a low ratio of sprinters to distance swimmers makes it hard to design a program for the "drop-dead" sprinter. Since a large percentage of swimmers in my current group are Ironman-distance triathletes, we've found that striking a balance between aerobic and speed/sprint work for everyone tends to change up the training a little, and helps to balance out the all-around swimming throughout the year. I know the "drop-dead" (50s only) swimmers think I'm crazy, but this kind of balance tends to help them as much as it does the distance swimmers to learn how to swim their respective events faster for longer periods of time with less injury and more consistent performance through the season. Almost to a person, even the most consistent sprinters in my program find themselves with something left in the tank come taper time to pop off some peak performances at Nationals :-) So, to quote Pat Morita, in many cases "balance is the key, Daniel-san."

Fort, in my college days :oldman: the only 50 was the 50 free and all 100s were also considered sprints. Now we have all these 50s with world records, the 100IM, and 200 free and medley relays at NCAAs. (I think it is due to Title IX.) Ande, I wonder if your formulas are more applicable to younger swimmers, maybe it changes with age. Yeah, I had to swim crap events like the 2-fly in college as well. Thank god Title IX had the residual positive effect of making us whimpy sprinters bloody happy! I don't know about ande's formula either. I'm a little scared to even think about what my current 200 times are .. Thanks for the thoughtful response, Chris. Balance seems like a good idea to counter mental and muscle burnout.

At a meet I went to in the 70s in Houston,Graham Johnson(definitely a distance swimmer),was(improbably)entered in the 100 and 200 BR SCY.His 100 time-1:14.His 200 time-2:28. For me this yr 100 BR 1:08,200 BR 2:28.Thats a 12 sec difference and my 200 was better than I expected and my 100 was worse-SPRINTER:banana:. Also I don't think non sprinters should have input on this thread (you know who you are and how you love yardage:mooning:.)

I cross train for fun and fitness, not because it helps my swimming. I think you have the right idea about cross-training. I am somewhat undecided about whether cycling helps my kicking, but mostly I think not. Certainly it is better than being on the couch...but should one skip swim workouts to bike, as a strategy to improve swimming? My own impression is no. On the one hand, cycling increases leg strength (much) more than swimming does, and that is significant. It is also great for fitness and burning calories. The scenery is enjoyable too, and riding with a group is pleasantly sociable (as long as they aren't too hard core). But it is not so good for upper body and I believe it reduces flexibility in the hams and lower back. I am not cycling much at all these days but kicking faster than I have in a long while. (It's a zero-sum game: more swimming/lifting means less cycling.) If I get a little tired of swimming or lifting in the future the pendulum may swing the other way for awhile. It is nice to have options, I don't always want to train exactly the same way. Good cross-training for kicking: weights (legs) and core exercises. About training for sprinting, you've gotten a lot of good advice from others. The only thing I would add is about broken sets (100s, 200s). They are great and we do them all the time, but don't depend on them solely for your "high lactate" days. Every so often you need to reproduce the lactate levels that you get at the end of a 100, to train your body to handle that and still swim fast and efficiently. Doing fast 100s on long intervals is a surefire way to do it, though painful (not something you do often, perhaps).

Maybe rtodd or someone else with a track background can enlighten us as to how 45-year-old 400m specialists train? www.theraceclub.net/.../viewtopic.php This is being discussed elsewhere. Here is a great thread which references the 400m track workout and it's equivalency to the 100m swim. Buried in it is an old iconic article from Clyde Hart (coach of Michael Johnson, Jeremy Wariner and Sanya Richards). It shows how an an elite 46 sec quarter miler might train. It was once thought that the quarter mile was 90% anaerobic and 10% aerobic. Scientific research has flipped that and found a rather large aerobic component. Therefore an aerobic component is necessary for sprinters not only for the race but also to assist in the recovery of repeats during speed endurance workouts. As the season progresses, the workouts become shorter and more intense. What shocked me most about switching to swimming was the short rest.....why do swimmers do that? I used to rest 2-3 minutes, sometimes 8-10 for full recovery.

In response to the thread title.. Based upon the results of Jazz and the testimony of Paul Smith, I would say, not much.