ASU Men's Swimming/Diving Cut

Who says they're not interested? The fact that it's so much harder to get women to participate. It's not uncommon for schools to offer 10 female sports and 7 mens sports. And if you subtract the football team, there are still more men playing those 6 sports than women playing 10. The reality is that women have now grown up playing sports. They're not being denied on a mass-scale like they were back in the 60's and 70's. The interpretation of Title IX hasn't taken into account a major paradigm shift that has occurred. And what do you mean by the statement that women "take what they want from" sports? Don't much like the sound of that ... Is this somehow different than men? Women AND men take what they want out of sports. Men and women play sports to the level they wish. Don't read too much else into that. College athletics are there for those that want to participate. And if the new women's crew team is currently undersubscribed or unsuccessful because it's a fairly new women's sport, does that mean it will be 10 years from now when high school teams are more common? Let's not write women's interest in sports off so quickly! Sheesh. Real change happens in slo-mo. 40 years ago, few girls participated in sports. Nowadays, the number of girls playing sports in the US is unparalleled. And how exactly can "financial stupidity" be a red herring in light of the dollar numbers we know are spent on football and basketball? B/c it is used in a misleading way. It's a scape-goat just as much as Title IX. Football -- which I hate, btw -- and basketball bring in money through alumni donations. THAT's why they still get promoted by universities. They're loss leaders. Sure. There's the whole, "Wull. We've always pumped up hoops and foo'ball" factor, but the bottom-line is that bitching about hoops and football is going to get you nowhere b/c w/o those 2 sports, alumni donations dry up. Have I mentioned that these sports are loss-leaders? It sounds like you're blurring sports and academics/larger social issues. They're separate. :shakeshead: Why was Title IX passed? Larger social issues that manifested themselves in sports. Why am I calling for a re-evaluation/shift in Title IX? B/c there's been a paradigm shift regarding gender roles in society, specifically w/ female participation in sports. First you're discussing minority boys in high school and now you're concerned with mothers and potential mothers seeking tenure and working in corporate america. Paradigm shift. Gender roles. Men now have different needs than they did 40 years ago. Women have different needs. Title IX = archaic. Doesn't reflect paradigm shift. As someone who gave up a partnership, I know first hand that these are all very valid and troublesome issues, with no simple solution, but they are a little beyond the purview of undergraduate education and sports. Sports, maybe. But outside the purview of universities???? They're not. Go to any university health center or student services center and you'll see how these are important issues. Did you know that service on these issues help professors qualify for tenure and raises? It's part of their job. Perhaps graduate schools can work on budgeting that money. Certainly don't want my future undergraduates being encouraged to have children at that age! :frustrated: Not every undergrad is btw 18-22 years old. Don't know what those larger social issues have to do with the plight of college swimming, football or Title IX. B/c all of the afore-mentioned are affected by an archaic piece of legislation. Maybe instead of penalizing women's sports, We're NOT penalizing women's sports. I'm sorry. We're not in the 60's any more. Men's sports are being penalized b/c universities have to have an equal number of male and female athletes. Not sports. Athletes. we could downsize our military spending just a wee bit to focus on these pressing domestic issues? I would love it! And if boys, including minority boys, don't want to be in college or are dropping out, perhaps they should be re-focused on something besides or in addition to sports at a young age? And if girls are more interested in getting pregnant and dropping out of high school, maybe they should "re-focus on something else"? (in case it's not obvious, this is a ridiculous statement.) Sorry for the strawman, but me personally, I'd rather address the issue through education and implementation of programs and policies based on facts , rather than throwing up my arms and saying "oh well". Perhaps too many parents are concerned with kids being first string varsity instead of whether they're getting good grades? W/ middle and upper class boys, it's mainly a question of "male privilege" and the fact that girls work harder. But there are other factors that need to be studied. If alumni won't give money without a football team, it's a good reason not to go to that school. I would never, ever, ever advise a student to take this into account while picking a school. The real issue behind this boils down to human nature, not institutional culture. After this third or fourth discussion of Title IX, I will continue to encourage my kids to pick their school for academic reasons. Wise decision.

Who says they're not interested? The fact that it's so much harder to get women to participate. It's not uncommon for schools to offer 10 female sports and 7 mens sports. And if you subtract the football team, there are still more men playing those 6 sports than women playing 10. The reality is that women have now grown up playing sports. They're not being denied on a mass-scale like they were back in the 60's and 70's. The interpretation of Title IX hasn't taken into account a major paradigm shift that has occurred. And what do you mean by the statement that women "take what they want from" sports? Don't much like the sound of that ... Is this somehow different than men? Women AND men take what they want out of sports. Men and women play sports to the level they wish. Don't read too much else into that. College athletics are there for those that want to participate. And if the new women's crew team is currently undersubscribed or unsuccessful because it's a fairly new women's sport, does that mean it will be 10 years from now when high school teams are more common? Let's not write women's interest in sports off so quickly! Sheesh. Real change happens in slo-mo. 40 years ago, few girls participated in sports. Nowadays, the number of girls playing sports in the US is unparalleled. And how exactly can "financial stupidity" be a red herring in light of the dollar numbers we know are spent on football and basketball? B/c it is used in a misleading way. It's a scape-goat just as much as Title IX. Football -- which I hate, btw -- and basketball bring in money through alumni donations. THAT's why they still get promoted by universities. They're loss leaders. Sure. There's the whole, "Wull. We've always pumped up hoops and foo'ball" factor, but the bottom-line is that bitching about hoops and football is going to get you nowhere b/c w/o those 2 sports, alumni donations dry up. Have I mentioned that these sports are loss-leaders? It sounds like you're blurring sports and academics/larger social issues. They're separate. :shakeshead: Why was Title IX passed? Larger social issues that manifested themselves in sports. Why am I calling for a re-evaluation/shift in Title IX? B/c there's been a paradigm shift regarding gender roles in society, specifically w/ female participation in sports. First you're discussing minority boys in high school and now you're concerned with mothers and potential mothers seeking tenure and working in corporate america. Paradigm shift. Gender roles. Men now have different needs than they did 40 years ago. Women have different needs. Title IX = archaic. Doesn't reflect paradigm shift. As someone who gave up a partnership, I know first hand that these are all very valid and troublesome issues, with no simple solution, but they are a little beyond the purview of undergraduate education and sports. Sports, maybe. But outside the purview of universities???? They're not. Go to any university health center or student services center and you'll see how these are important issues. Did you know that service on these issues help professors qualify for tenure and raises? It's part of their job. Perhaps graduate schools can work on budgeting that money. Certainly don't want my future undergraduates being encouraged to have children at that age! :frustrated: Not every undergrad is btw 18-22 years old. Don't know what those larger social issues have to do with the plight of college swimming, football or Title IX. B/c all of the afore-mentioned are affected by an archaic piece of legislation. Maybe instead of penalizing women's sports, We're NOT penalizing women's sports. I'm sorry. We're not in the 60's any more. Men's sports are being penalized b/c universities have to have an equal number of male and female athletes. Not sports. Athletes. we could downsize our military spending just a wee bit to focus on these pressing domestic issues? I would love it! And if boys, including minority boys, don't want to be in college or are dropping out, perhaps they should be re-focused on something besides or in addition to sports at a young age? And if girls are more interested in getting pregnant and dropping out of high school, maybe they should "re-focus on something else"? (in case it's not obvious, this is a ridiculous statement.) Sorry for the strawman, but me personally, I'd rather address the issue through education and implementation of programs and policies based on facts , rather than throwing up my arms and saying "oh well". Perhaps too many parents are concerned with kids being first string varsity instead of whether they're getting good grades? W/ middle and upper class boys, it's mainly a question of "male privilege" and the fact that girls work harder. But there are other factors that need to be studied. If alumni won't give money without a football team, it's a good reason not to go to that school. I would never, ever, ever advise a student to take this into account while picking a school. The real issue behind this boils down to human nature, not institutional culture. After this third or fourth discussion of Title IX, I will continue to encourage my kids to pick their school for academic reasons. Wise decision.